Pal VS SK end game

[Trungep99]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I tanked a couple of dragons and vindi but i remember it not being viable and only working bc we had 90+ man raids

I remember that raid you tanked Vindi. Was sweet

[Trungep99]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've certainly out dpsed monks on my SK hehe. Paladin endgame is better for raiding and solo challenge on mobs that can't be feared. SKs endgame can solo anything fearable better. SKs are better in groups endgame too due to FD. SKs are not really used in raiding.

SKs can land their debuffs on raid bosses, just have to worry about pulling agro. So I debuffed the atk and ac with the shrouds

[Troxx]

To be blunt, the overall versatility in any communal situation (group or raid) strongly favors Paladins over SKs at the end game. They just bring more to the table. SKs can make valuable contributions to raid pull teams situationally … but this doesn’t offset paladin buff capabilities, heals, CH clicks and whatnot. It’s not really close.

Neither of them are good DPS. I mean is my paladin with Greatspear of dawn capable of putting down numbers and impressing non-raid geared folks in groups? Sure … but doesn’t hold a candle to any competently/equally geared raid melee.

Paladins just have a more well balanced and powerful tool kit.

[Toxigen]

Soulfires and DS make Paladins better. Simply put, a SK cannot save a raid but a Soulfire surely can. Incredible on tight AoWs, clutch pre slow vulaks, etc.

SK is kinda nice certain spots. They make for fantastic pullers off the bard kite(s) in Growth and are ok running around in VP.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It's simple. If you prefer solo/group situations, SK is going to be better. If you want to raid with your hybrid, Paladin is better.

[Ripqozko]

Its simple, what it basically all boils down to is

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's simple. If you prefer solo/group situations, SK is going to be better. If you want to raid with your hybrid, Paladin is better.

Solo? Probably/definitely. Paladins are capable(ish) but SKs have a wider range of options. I did quite a bit of soloing on my Paladin. It wasn’t terrible but god it would have been easier as a SK.

With regards to grouping? I would disagree. Granted both classes are so exceptionally great in groups that it really doesn’t matter at all, but I fail to see how the SK edges out to any superior state. Breaking it down by job/whatever.

Tanking: both are excellent. Factoring in other stuff below you and it’s direct/indirect impact on tanking, you could make the case that one is better than the other … but I digress, they are both superior group tanks.

Aggro: both are excellent. Which would win in a penis waving contest of who could 1-up the other? Doesn’t matter. Neither should ever (ever … never ever) a problem with threat.

DPS: in a fast moving group, they will honestly be about the same. Yes a SK can load up them dots for a harder burn but you’s gonna find yourself sitting on your arse oom if you think a SK will keep up with it regularly enough to make a difference unless pulls or slow or there’s a lot of down time in the camp. SK pet can function as a nice dot, but it’s a wash. Thread asks specifically about high end groups and knight dps, while a worthwhile addition if geared well, is small in the grand scheme of things.

Pulling: SK have FD. Paired with snare you may find the rare circumstance with a less than ideal group where this is preferable to just chain pulling and cc’ing adds. On the flip side Paladins can lull pull quite easily in most all group situations. In the end, you’re likely going to have someone else pulling. +1 to SK if it NEEDS FD and you don’t have a dedicated puller who could and should be doing it better. In every other situation it’s either a wash or the paladin can do just as well if not faster soothing.

Healing: One can heal themselves inefficiently. The other can heal both self and others more efficiently (and maybe more importantly they can do so between fights).

Utility: this is where the classes really diverge. Paladins have a very broad toolkit. SKs kinda get the shaft here. High end? Paladins have some potent direct healing, emergency group healing (honestly though it’s a mana hog and not powerful), a fast cast 175hp HoT, root, lull, multiple stuns, a 200hp targetable buff that stacks with everything, a backup 90% rez if your cleric way down at EMP/King bites it (should never happen), emergency LoH …. it paints a pretty clear picture. Should you find yourself in a ‘high end’ group without a cleric, paladins get lower level cleric hp buff, symbol, and ac buffs to bolster self and others. The sum total of what a SK brings utility wise just can’t compare. This is where I make and rest my case that SK is not the better group class.

Granted in most groups will either knight find themselves using the full scope of their utility toolkit? Probably not. Mostly you’ll be focusing on making the mob hit you while letting each respective group member cover their duty.

SKs do have one MASSIVE creature comfort: mobility. Between invis (instant if you have prenerf) and FD … damn that’s nice. Getting around on a paladin is a comparative pain in the ass. Joining a group deep in a dungeon? Paladins basically have to either attempt to lull in, train/die close to the group, get a drag/rez or CoTH, or have the group leave camp to come pull or get to them. This difference may seem small … but a serious case could be made that for the player who only really does grouping that the SK class is just so much more friendly to play. Mobility is such a headache saver.



TLDR summary: both knights are fantastic in groups. Rarely will their differences make any substantial impact. In those rare cases where their differences really do matter, the only meaningful advantage the SK might have is having the unique ability to FD pull when absolutely necessary and nobody else can do it.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Solo? Probably/definitely. Paladins are capable(ish) but SKs have a wider range of options. I did quite a bit of soloing on my Paladin. It wasn’t terrible but god it would have been easier as a SK.

With regards to grouping? I would disagree. Granted both classes are so exceptionally great in groups that it really doesn’t matter at all, but I fail to see how the SK edges out to any superior state. Breaking it down by job/whatever.

Tanking: both are excellent. Factoring in other stuff below you and it’s direct/indirect impact on tanking, you could make the case that one is better than the other … but I digress, they are both superior group tanks.

Aggro: both are excellent. Which would win in a penis waving contest of who could 1-up the other? Doesn’t matter. Neither should ever (ever … never ever) a problem with threat.

DPS: in a fast moving group, they will honestly be about the same. Yes a SK can load up them dots for a harder burn but you’s gonna find yourself sitting on your arse oom if you think a SK will keep up with it regularly enough to make a difference unless pulls or slow or there’s a lot of down time in the camp. SK pet can function as a nice dot, but it’s a wash. Thread asks specifically about high end groups and knight dps, while a worthwhile addition if geared well, is small in the grand scheme of things.

Pulling: SK have FD. Paired with snare you may find the rare circumstance with a less than ideal group where this is preferable to just chain pulling and cc’ing adds. On the flip side Paladins can lull pull quite easily in most all group situations. In the end, you’re likely going to have someone else pulling. +1 to SK if it NEEDS FD and you don’t have a dedicated puller who could and should be doing it better. In every other situation it’s either a wash or the paladin can do just as well if not faster soothing.

Healing: One can heal themselves inefficiently. The other can heal both self and others more efficiently (and maybe more importantly they can do so between fights).

Utility: this is where the classes really diverge. Paladins have a very broad toolkit. SKs kinda get the shaft here. High end? Paladins have some potent direct healing, emergency group healing (honestly though it’s a mana hog and not powerful), a fast cast 175hp HoT, root, lull, multiple stuns, a 200hp targetable buff that stacks with everything, a backup 90% rez if your cleric way down at EMP/King bites it (should never happen), emergency LoH …. it paints a pretty clear picture. Should you find yourself in a ‘high end’ group without a cleric, paladins get lower level cleric hp buff, symbol, and ac buffs to bolster self and others. The sum total of what a SK brings utility wise just can’t compare. This is where I make and rest my case that SK is not the better group class.

Granted in most groups will either knight find themselves using the full scope of their utility toolkit? Probably not. Mostly you’ll be focusing on making the mob hit you while letting each respective group member cover their duty.

SKs do have one MASSIVE creature comfort: mobility. Between invis (instant if you have prenerf) and FD … damn that’s nice. Getting around on a paladin is a comparative pain in the ass. Joining a group deep in a dungeon? Paladins basically have to either attempt to lull in, train/die close to the group, get a drag/rez or CoTH, or have the group leave camp to come pull or get to them. This difference may seem small … but a serious case could be made that for the player who only really does grouping that the SK class is just so much more friendly to play. Mobility is such a headache saver.



TLDR summary: both knights are fantastic in groups. Rarely will their differences make any substantial impact. In those rare cases where their differences really do matter, the only meaningful advantage the SK might have is having the unique ability to FD pull when absolutely necessary and nobody else can do it.

tldr Ranger is better class overall

[Toxigen]

Sorry you don't got soulfire hope this helps.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With regards to grouping? I would disagree. Granted both classes are so exceptionally great in groups that it really doesn’t matter at all, but I fail to see how the SK edges out to any superior state. Breaking it down by job/whatever.

The main reason why SKs edge out Paladins in general grouping is because of FD pulling. With an SK you can have your tank and puller as one class, similar to having a monk who can pull and tank. This means you could get away with less group members, and thus more XP per kill. Paladins can pull, but it is generally slower and more dangerous. When you have a Paladin tank you would typically want a dedicated puller as well.

You could argue that a Paladin could act as your reser at 60, and therefore could get away with having a Shaman as your main healer instead. But Paladins only get their good res at 60, so this means you can't do that for levels 1-59, whereas SK's can start FD pulling at 30. A lot of people also have pocket clerics these days, so you can get away with having a res bot parked somewhere when needed.

Don't get me wrong, both are great in groups, and both can solo well. And there are situations where Paladins are better. They do better in any solo situation where you cannot fear the mob, for example.