Will Hybrid XP penalties be implemented on Green Server launch?

[NegaStoat]

I'd just like to know who the asshat was that derailed this thread from Hybrid experience penalties and the new server to whatever the hell this is. Seriously, get a room.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As has already been discussed, the Classic pre-PnP era requires less GM intervention.

That's an argument against your position, not for it.

R&N have run this server for ten years. For ten years they could have instituted classic pre-PNP era policies, and doing so would have made their lives significantly easier. And yet ... they didn't.

Maybe they either:

• A) know something you don't about what a nightmare your idea actually be (for them), and/or:
• B) they just don't want the server you're describing (for the players)

You think classic non-PnP + modern server = classic server. Literally everyone else thinks that adds up to a mess, not a classic server. And yet you keep pushing the idea anyway, despite the fact that you've had absolutely no success whatsoever: not one single person in any of these threads you've taken over has replied "yeah, I buy what Zuranthium is selling".

And to be clear, you do take over other people's threads, in a disrespectful way. Changing a thread's topic organically is normal here, but you've followed a deliberate pattern for the past week or so. You ignore the topic at hand but use it as an excuse to go off on your pet issue, then reply to every response made (probably with the simplistic belief that by getting the last word you "win" the argument) ... until everyone talking to you realizes that they're talking to a wall. At that point the thread dies because the people originally interested in it have long since left.

You either just don't realize you're doing that, and don't realize that all this effort you're putting in is having absolutely no benefit whatsoever ... or that you realize it, but don't care, because the real audience of all this effort is R&N. And if that's the case, it suggests that:

• A) you think they're complete morons who couldn't come up with the idea, but your revelation will enlighten them, and/or:
• B) they have thought of it, but you you know better than them how to run the world's most popular emulated EQ server ... despite the fact that they've overseen literally tens of thousands of hours of volunteer CS effort

So which is it? Are you tone deaf and unaware of how anyone perceives your posts? Or aware but thinking "it doesn't matter, as long as I can enlighten R&N, which I'm totally doing with this campaign"? (Or both?)

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One or two guys crying that they cant KS or train people here isnt going to get any rules changed here but nice rant(s)

That's Zura in a nutshell.

[Troxx]

PS: The argument that anything classic should be in game also is an argument for the multiple plat and item duping bugs that were present in classic to be present on Green99. Oh yeah ... and classic didn't have strict no boxing policies of sniffers to root out people using MQ2. Come to think of it ... live (to include current version of it) never had hard blocks for MQ2 hackers! So should a classic green experience be void those things too? It is, after all, classic.

How about no.

The game/community stabilizing "not classic" things about this server are positive.

I'm all for keeping the PNP policy as is, disallowing boxing, disallowing hack/cheating, disallowing item/plat duping, and disallowing other stuff (like rampant non-classic aoe kiting/nuking) that keeps p99 the awesome thing it is.

[Nisse]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Current live is hardly classic EQ environment. And there is no boxing allowed on P99 either. And if it did play Live EQ, there would be a multitude of places I could go, away from whatever spot the boxed mage army is playing in.

And, LOL, exact classic era EQ is not even a game I want to play! This is *entirely* about the actual facts of classic EQ, not about the exact server I would create as my ideal possible game. It's irrelevant that I prefer certain aspects of Classic EQ to what they are now. There are also things I don't prefer, yet have to accept, within this realm of discussion. In the end all that matters is accurate history.



Another fallacy, as there's no such thing as supertwinks when a server launches. Beyond that, there's far more places to fight than orc 1. This is a description of players being unadventurous and whining about their own tunnel-vision. Butcherblock and Steamfont are better starting areas than G-Fay, they have naturally lesser populations on top of it, and require very little travel time to reach.

The point is you can go see your shitty idea in practice and the result is a toxic cesspool that favors the players worst instincts. The only positive would be server staff wouldn't have to deal with all the fuckheads making everyone's gaming experience suck. Cool server sounds fun.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

looK lieK cHorTleS jouRney GuN b ReaL lOng

[Primordial Ooze]

It's a lot easier to go from pre-PNP to PNP than the reverse. Now that the gen pop is long used to the difference, to go back to pre-PNP would attract the fuckshit asshats that just want to ruin people's days. Not sustainable by a long shot.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The argument that anything classic should be in game also is an argument for the multiple plat and item duping bugs that were present in classic to be present on Green99. It is, after all, classic.

This is a total misrepresentation and straw-man. These things were NEVER okay with the game developers. People were banned for exploits. Contesting content via damage was not an exploit or a crime. It was part of the actual game, and it was more exciting, more dynamic.

Originally Posted by Nisse [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point is you can go see your shitty idea in practice and the result is a toxic cesspool that favors the players worst instincts.

No. The current P99 policy is the most toxic of all. People being able to own camps without any possibility of contesting means that content becomes controlled by no-life players, locking other players out of even trying, making the game world that much more artificial.

Everquest was at its best in 1999, when the "shitty idea" was in place. Your conception of EQ seems to be Farmville, or brainless superficiality of "achievement" by gaining a pixel in a video game, via a method that requires little-to-no actual skill or interactivity. That's not what the game, and the MMORPG genre, is supposed to be. That's sadly just what it has turned into: hollow boxes with no real soul or adventure left.

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Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

R&N have run this server for ten years. For ten years they could have instituted classic pre-PNP era policies.

Stop and think before writing this shit. They couldn't have, if being true to timeline, because the server has been in Kunark era for over 8 years. You also ignore the possibility that they didn't know or remember the exact specifics of the classic PNP and the earliest era before it, like most people here, and thus came up with a non-classic PNP (which should be changed).

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You ignore the topic at hand but use it as an excuse to go off on your pet issue

You either need better reading comprehension, or need to stop repeating the same wrong assumptions. If you actually read the content of the thread, then you'll see I was responding to other posters about the subject being discussed, and provided a very detailed discourse on the subject. The conversation naturally developed from there.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

because the real audience of all this effort is R&N. And if that's the case, it suggests that:

• A) you think they're complete morons who couldn't come up with the idea, but your revelation will enlighten them, and/or:
• B) you think you know better than them how to run the world's most popular emulated EQ server, despite the fact that they've overseen (if not directly participated in, in the early days) tens of thousands of hours of volunteer CS effort

Not only fallacy, but also a really bad case of tunnel-vision adherence to status quo. Running the server for 10 years does not mean they have all the best ideas, nor the best policies or attentiveness. It simply means they own something. They were the first to come out with a relatively classic EQ server, which inherently made it popular. Your line of thinking is like arguing that McDonalds has the best food around, by virtue of its ubiquity. Yikes.

If they did know about the classic PNP for years now, and chose to never implement it, then they've never given any reasoning for why the current P99 system is better or justified. Without any communication of reasoning, there is a lack of clarity. Even then, it still wouldn't mean their decision was objectively the best one to take. They are not infallible, and discussing better solutions is productive. You don't need to be so counter-productive and keep naysaying everything with knee-jerk responses.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a total misrepresentation and straw-man. These things were NEVER okay with the game developers. People were banned for exploits. Contesting content via damage was not an exploit or a crime. It was part of the actual game, and it was more exciting, more dynamic.

The institution of the PNP was not the revocation of an intended classic mechanic. It was reaction to poor behavior on the part of a bunch of children and man-children who thought that being in an online fantasy computer game world meant that basic human decency could be disregarded.

Verant assumed that people would know it’s not ok to ninjaloot, deceive, grief, kill steal. Obviously Verant’s trust in humanity was misplaced so they were forced to draft a set of policies not unlike the lessons we all learned in kindergarten with regards to playing in the same sandbox with other people without being dicks.

You have a warped, grandiose and twistedly fantasized view of what early Everquest before the PNP was actually like.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The institution of the PNP was not the revocation of an intended classic mechanic. It was reaction to poor behavior on the part of a bunch of children and man-children who thought that being in an online fantasy computer game world meant that basic human decency could be disregarded. Verant assumed that people would know it’s not ok to ninjaloot, deceive, kill steal.

The mechanic was intended, this is not an accurate take. ACTUAL kill stealing was a thing in MUD's, where the games were sometimes coded so that whoever got the last hit on a mob got all the exp. They changed it for EQ to most damage dealt, so as to remove kill stealing. Dealing the most damage is an easy-to-understand method of competition. Whoever is most powerful wins the prize. If they wanted to code it so that only the first group to engage was allowed to fight, which was what some MUD's did, then they would have. That's not how they chose to code the game.

Competition in MUD's and games like Ultima Online revolved around players directly attacking each other, and the EQ designers didn't want all the servers to be about attacking players directly. Hence they had to come up with some other form of competition, in the case of disputes. What you describe as "poor behavior" is layered gameplay. Players have the choice to make decisions, which other players will judge them on. The game is supposed to be you exploring the world and reacting to what's happening around you, including what other players are doing. Sitting at static camps and blocking out the possibility of competition is not interesting gameplay.

The PNP was a reaction to $$$. It was the easiest way for them to "fix" the game for the sheep. The company was looking at the dangling carrot of selling the most copies of the game and getting the most subscriptions. They didn't instead focus on why "kill stealing" was such a turn off for some players - the static content, overcrowded servers, imbalance of mechanics, and the overly time-consuming nature of the game (ridiculously slow regen rates being a sizable culprit here).

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have a warped, grandiose and twistedly fantasized view of what early Everquest before the PNP was actually like.

This is you projecting. I was there, I know what happened. There's plenty of other player testimonies too, not mention the developer's themselves. People had the choice to compete for whatever content they wanted. Some people, the majority of people in fact, chose not to. That's their decision. They felt more comfortable not having to take risks or impose themselves or face the possibility of "losing". However, that layer of gameplay being present is part of what made the world more immersive and dynamic. Even if it only happened once a week or something, it was still the mark of a living world, where who knows what would happen next.