Kabull

[Psyborg]

Originally Posted by lookitsjb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So I'm torn with this post.

On one hand; I completely agree with you in that it isn't fun sitting around with a blocker up...

On the other hand I have historical evidence: On numerous occasions when the final blocker spawned (Lady N, Jorll, Trips) FRAG and Riot were at a stand-still for literal hours trying to identify the best way to handle the Vulak Blocker. There is one unique case in that FRAG was killing Lady N for approximately 1+ hours consistently, holding Lady N at around 5-10% while they worked out a plan for Vulak.

So your argument is sound; it isn't fun. But the "We would never do this", historically, is entirely inaccurate.

We would never leave a blocker to an hour of the day where riot would have an issue mustering numbers. What you’re describing is leaving up a blocker so that we could have a chance at competing and was only something that was an issue before the Vulak blocker rule was added. It was rather silly that killing the last blocker effectively put you at a major disadvantage for Vulak.

[Psyborg]

Originally Posted by Molitoth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4-6 hour contested vulak raids with blockers is brutal.

Playing smart throughout the cycle should bring an advantage, so don't screw up and get to a point where you have to concede mobs.

All guilds have messed up at some point or another and lost an advantage.
It sucks, but forces us all (Regardless of you guild tag) to try and play better.

I would not want to be part of a guild that waits until 9AM to kill the best target in the game just so that competition was reduced or eliminated. To each his own, but I would rather lose contested Vulaks than win free ones. Obviously if another guild needs to concede a Vulak you take it and move on.

[Loke]

Originally Posted by lookitsjb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On the other hand I have historical evidence: On numerous occasions when the final blocker spawned (Lady N, Jorll, Trips) FRAG and Riot were at a stand-still for literal hours trying to identify the best way to handle the Vulak Blocker. There is one unique case in that FRAG was killing Lady N for approximately 1+ hours consistently, holding Lady N at around 5-10% while they worked out a plan for Vulak.

The example you give kind of illustrates his point though. Instead of sitting by allowing the blocker to act as a blocker, we came up with a strategy that allowed us to kill both while Riot sat around waiting for us to kill Nev. Yes, it took us awhile to coordinate everything, but at least we were doing something that wasn't sitting around hoping the other guild would gift us a free Vulak.

Also interesting to note that in typical Riot fashion, they attempted to lawyer quest over it. Why compete when you can write 20 page google docs petitions?

[Psyborg]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The example you give kind of illustrates his point though. Instead of sitting by allowing the blocker to act as a blocker, we came up with a strategy that allowed us to kill both while Riot sat around waiting for us to kill Nev. Yes, it took us awhile to coordinate everything, but at least we were doing something that wasn't sitting around hoping the other guild would gift us a free Vulak.

Also interesting to note that in typical Riot fashion, they attempted to lawyer quest over it. Why compete when you can write 20 page google docs petitions?

Yep, we give them 2 free shots to game Zlexak instead of 1 and they petition it. A thing of beauty.

[lookitsjb]

Originally Posted by Psyborg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We would never leave a blocker to an hour of the day where riot would have an issue mustering numbers.

There really is no hour of the day that Riot cant muster numbers. That's not a flex, if anything, it reinforces the main purpose of this thread...

Originally Posted by Psyborg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What you’re describing is leaving up a blocker so that we could have a chance at competing and was only something that was an issue before the Vulak blocker rule was added.

I'm not sure I'm following this piece; "Leaving a blocker was only an issue before the blocker" doesn't make sense to me. I think I get what you're saying based on the below sentence though...

Originally Posted by Psyborg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was rather silly that killing the last blocker effectively put you at a major disadvantage for Vulak.

So yeah, this one I don't fully grasp, as it wasn't Riot that stalled Lady N for the FTE Lottery on Vulak, it was FRAG. At this particular Raid, FRAG had about +30 more people combined in comparison to Riot, but still held the Lady N engage for over an hour.

Regardless; to get back to the meat-and-potatoes of this thread, you touched on something extremely important here; waiting until competition is reduced.

I'm not in any way speaking on behalf of Riot, Kittens, FRAG, etc. just as some sad-sack that plays a 20 year old elf sim like the rest of you guys. But the purpose of waiting isn't to reduce competition, but to reduce the impact of that competition. We're all in the UN channel and see the bickering that goes back-and-forth in there. 30 year olds acting like children over pixels that respawn in a week (Someone can insert the "Sorry you didn't get Warder's loot" here [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.])

No one enjoys investing a ton of time into prep just to get trained by another guild, then watch that guild leapfrog and kill something. And that isn't a dig at FRAG or Riot, that's just a general statement. It's hard to claim you want competition in any guild, when you're unwilling to accept loss or failure. If mistakes drive you to do un-sportsman like shit, then competition isn't your motivator; winning is, and you're proving to the entire community you're willing to cheat to win.

The "target" of this thread took the game to a level that it should never be taken to. It's concerning that someone would reach out in 15-minute intervals wishing harm upon another person. IRL that would legit warrant a restraining order or court appearance. The trajectory of this raid-scene and community isn't healthy if the first resort when seeing this is to poke fun or mock someone in this state of mind...

Just my 2 cents though.

[Toryas]

Originally Posted by Psyborg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would not want to be part of a guild that waits until 9AM to kill the best target in the game just so that competition was reduced or eliminated. To each his own, but I would rather lose contested Vulaks than win free ones. Obviously if another guild needs to concede a Vulak you take it and move on.

Pleased to hear you’d rather sit around playing with yourself whilst ~5 people do anything useful for 5 hours. I’d love to have that much spare time. Also, believe it or not, there are other time zones than EST, hence Freedumb are constantly badgering Riot’s Eurasia playerbase to be competitive during ‘muricas off-peak.

[lookitsjb]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The example you give kind of illustrates his point though. Instead of sitting by allowing the blocker to act as a blocker, we came up with a strategy that allowed us to kill both while Riot sat around waiting for us to kill Nev. Yes, it took us awhile to coordinate everything, but at least we were doing something that wasn't sitting around hoping the other guild would gift us a free Vulak.

Also interesting to note that in typical Riot fashion, they attempted to lawyer quest over it. Why compete when you can write 20 page google docs petitions?

If I remember; the petition was because FRAG held Lady N at 5-10% for over an hour on 2 separate engages (after wiping from the first engage) which is a clear-cut stall. The issue wasn't Vulak; it was that for over an hour FRAG prevented another guild from competing entirely on 2 targets while they "worked out a strategy"...

[Psyborg]

Originally Posted by lookitsjb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not in any way speaking on behalf of Riot, Kittens, FRAG, etc. just as some sad-sack that plays a 20 year old elf sim like the rest of you guys. But the purpose of waiting isn't to reduce competition, but to reduce the impact of that competition. We're all in the UN channel and see the bickering that goes back-and-forth in there. 30 year olds acting like children over pixels that respawn in a week (Someone can insert the "Sorry you didn't get Warder's loot" here [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.])

The purpose of Riot waiting until 9AM yesterday to unlock Vulak was 100% to reduce competition.

[Psyborg]

Originally Posted by lookitsjb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I remember; the petition was because FRAG held Lady N at 5-10% for over an hour on 2 separate engages (after wiping from the first engage) which is a clear-cut stall. The issue wasn't Vulak; it was that for over an hour FRAG prevented another guild from competing entirely on 2 targets while they "worked out a strategy"...

You're definitely overstating this. It was never held for an hour. We wiped twice trying to hold it and Riot never took any steps to engage N in between wipes.

[Loke]

Originally Posted by lookitsjb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I remember; the petition was because FRAG held Lady N at 5-10% for over an hour on 2 separate engages (after wiping from the first engage) which is a clear-cut stall. The issue wasn't Vulak; it was that for over an hour FRAG prevented another guild from competing entirely on 2 targets while they "worked out a strategy"...

This just isn't true. First of all, we wiped twice (for 3 total engages). After each wipe, any guild had ample time to engage and try themselves. None decided to - instead waiting for us to kill it so they'd have a free shot at Vulak. No single engage was over an hour. In fact, I don't think any of the engages were over 30 minutes. I know this because of a certain someone finding out how the enrage mechanic works (e.g. it refreshes). I was also the tank on the final engage, so pretty familiar with how long it took.

Additionally, at least according to traditional stall rules, that didn't count as a stall since we had a raid force actively engaged. The only rule that ever existed on this server about how fast you had to kill a mob was that you had to get it in summoning range within 1 minute, but I don't even think that rule is applicable anymore, and only existed to prevent DA stalling on CoTH race mobs.