Game Mechanics: AC/Level Mitigation & Backstabs

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While we're at it, duelist is not raising the minimum damage value for backstabs when activated. Does anyone know if this is correct? I hit a duelist BS yesterday for 88 and facepalmed.

Actually I think even non disciplines are having issues with that. I've had some archery shots where a double dmg hit would be for 19 while a normal minimum was 19. It might be a widespread issue of when the calculations of multiplying base damage are being made. Sounds like a separate bug report we can both contribute on~

[Baxter]

Our "magic number" seems to be 130. To me this number seems very low to be our magic number. I wasn't a rogue on live so I cant say if this is correct or not. My gut feeling says it can't be right because its only 10 more than minimum.

I should have paid closer attention to the data Kanras posted earlier on the first page. The magic number in his logs is 194 and not 130 like it is now.

[Treats]

Weapon damage will increase your Max hit and Magic Number by a lot.

60 Rogue
225 Backstab
200 Strength

10 DMG Piercer - (130) Magic Number, (293) Max hit
11 DMG Piercer - (143) Magic Number, (323) Max hit
12 DMG Piercer - (156) Magic Number, (352) Max hit
13 DMG Piercer - (169) Magic Number, (381) Max hit
14 DMG Piercer - (182) Magic Number, (411) Max hit
15 DMG Piercer - (195) Magic Number, (440) Max hit

[Aadill]

So wait is all of this concerning people with 10 dmg daggers expecting much above the 120 dmg min at 60?

What would a level 60 person with a 15 dmg backstabber find?

Basically, anyone doing testing with a 10 dmg dagger will find what Baxter found. Anyone doing testing with a 15 dmg dagger will find what Kanras found and both seem correct because for the former magic and minimum are so close and for the latter a much more even spread is available simply due to the weapon. AC may still be a factor but the end-all-be-all weapon for rogues opens up a whole new can o' whoopass, as an epic should, as evidenced by a much larger magic number/max damage value.

Looks like someone with a crystalline spear/efreeti war spear needs to do some testing because the numbers make more sense as of right now.

[Shiftin]

Every raiding rogue who could find one switched to a SCD over rapier or crys spear when we stopped hitting anywhere near maximum with any regularity and it sadly became more efficient to just hit for the minimum as fast as we could. That's why all of the parses are with SCD (10 damage weapons). It's not practical to test scaling of the formula with a 15 Dam weapon because the only one that exists right now is efreeti war spear and at 40 delay that's pretty painful to sit though.

I'm still trying to not be 59 anymore so i'm not going to hose my groups testing crappy weapons in exp groups (with the current implementation at least).

edit: no, i don't think anyone is expecting "more than 120". That is the correct minimum for backstab with a 10 dam pierecer as best as we can tell. The issue is that we hit for exactly the minimum entirely too much. Kanras said he expected it to be similar to the tigole parse he has, and we're currently hitting for minimum far more often than that.

[Aadill]

Here's a question: Is there a difference in ATK large enough between Kanras and any of the rogues here to cause some discrepancies in the RNG? It's at least 40 off due to Ragebringer.

*PS I never played a rogue I'm just thinking about possibilities

[azeth]

This is frustrating knowing, like I assume most people who played a rogue in the day know, that @ lvl 60 with 15 damage your max backstab is 556 (fact!)

im wondering if thorough investigation of the safehouse archive is in order.

[Supaskillz]

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tooo much 120

[Supaskillz]

that is hard to read and doesn't show misses. 59% backstab attempts in sample were either a miss or min hit, and less than 1% for max.

[Rhambuk]

anyone notice a change in todays patch, doesnt seem to much difference for me. Lots of misses and min hits