Cannibalize HP:Mana conversions ?

[Bushido]

is the conversions listed as:

Cannibalize I (LVL 24): consume 50 hp, gain 19-30 Mana (conversion ratio is 1.66 to 2.63 hp:mana)
Cannibalize II (LVL 38): consume 67 hp, gain 30-42 Mana (conversion ratio is 1.60 to 2.23 hp:mana)
Cannibalize III (LVL 54): consume 100 hp, gain 39-47 Mana (conversion ratio is 2.13 to 2.56 hp:mana)
Cannibalize IV (LVL 58): consume 148 hp, gain 81-82 Mana (conversion ratio is 1.80 to 1.83 hp:mana)

correct?

cannibalize:
1 : Decrease Hitpoints by 50
2 : Increase Mana by 20 (L24) to 28 (L60)
cannibalize II:
1 : Decrease Hitpoints by 67
2 : Increase Mana by 30 (L39) to 36 (L60)
cannibalize III:
1 : Decrease Hitpoints by 100
2 : Increase Mana by 39 (L54) to 46 (L60)

or the spell listings correct?

the first is listed under shaman wiki but the spells show a different mana under the wiki.

[Fishbait]

That entire section covering canni and healing ratios on the shaman class page are incorrect for p1999. This section was most likely copy pasted from a guide that was further into Velious or even Luclin judging by the healing costs/heals.

From what I found the individual spell listings for Canni I, II, and III are the actual numbers.

[BlkCamel]

Originally Posted by Fishbait [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That entire section covering canni and healing ratios on the shaman class page are incorrect for p1999. This section was most likely copy pasted from a guide that was further into Velious or even Luclin judging by the healing costs/heals.

From what I found the individual spell listings for Canni I, II, and III are the actual numbers.

Agree, Canni II is the most efficient and should be used when soloing/regular grouping. Canni III is fastest and should be used during raid encounters or when you have dedicated healing (with mana to spare on you).[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[theaetatus]

Even at 54, Canni 3 is essentially as efficient as Canni 2 (0.47 mana/hp vs 0.48) and Canni 3 gets more efficient by level 57.

So really you might as well just switch to Canni 3 when you can. I don't think anyone really needs that extra 0.01 mana/hp efficiency, especially when it's only valid for 2 levels when Canni 3 becomes slightly better.

[BlkCamel]

Originally Posted by theaetatus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even at 54, Canni 3 is essentially as efficient as Canni 2 (0.47 mana/hp vs 0.48) and Canni 3 gets more efficient by level 57.

So really you might as well just switch to Canni 3 when you can. I don't think anyone really needs that extra 0.01 mana/hp efficiency, especially when it's only valid for 2 levels when Canni 3 becomes slightly better.

I understand the logic but do not agree in practice, I am a Shaman (although not fully raid geared) that has maxed my Sta/HP. Even with an over emphasis on HP I do not believe Canni 3 to be worth-while solo'ing or when playing Main Healer.

100hp per click is a major difference from 67, you will feel it (something many do not consider is the missed Canni's while casting torpor because you drained hp so fast with canni 3, repeated casts of torpor can count as double digit casts of canni 2). One thing is by using lower canni you are slowing the effects of the negative hp an allowing more ticks to occur in-between. Also you can cast with earring nonstop without worring about hp, can torpor and still canni nonstop and only gain 20%hp but 45% mana. 100hp just isn't safe solo unless you have BiS.[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P.S. ***This is all based on risk, if you lose enough hp you die, if you go oom you can do many things but only so many of those are death. Loss of hp is death 100%, this is why people argue for Frontal Stun Immunity BTW. I think using Canni 3 while solo or without outside healing is adding too much risk vs reward, you just lose too much hp too fast and prevents you from canni in every situation. With Canni 2 can canni while being beat because you know you can cast it 30 times before you truly Cannibalize.

[DrKvothe]

Pretorpor:
I found that using canni 2 I was spending way too much time casting canni. With canni 3 i caught more med ticks. Root/rotting 4-6 mobs at once is pretty busy work, and I really want to cast canni as few times as possible to keep my hp from maxing.

Also, my cannis weren't chainable with clicky because I kept paralyzing earth in top slot.

[theaetatus]

Originally Posted by BlkCamel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I understand the logic but do not agree in practice, I am a Shaman (although not fully raid geared) that has maxed my Sta/HP. Even with an over emphasis on HP I do not believe Canni 3 to be worth-while solo'ing or when playing Main Healer.

Just use canni 3 twice instead of canni II thrice. Same hp loss, more mana. Less clicks, less med ticks possibly lost. More time to cast other things. There is no advantage to using canni 2 unless you have less than 100 hp left. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[BlkCamel]

Originally Posted by theaetatus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just use canni 3 twice instead of canni II thrice. Same hp loss, more mana. Less clicks, less med ticks possibly lost. More time to cast other things. There is no advantage to using canni 2 unless you have less than 100 hp left. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I feel 100hp chunks at a time is too much when soloing unless its trash, sometimes you have to canni while face tanking, taking less dmg makes it safer, but to each his own of-course![You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[loramin]

Originally Posted by BlkCamel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but to each his own of-course![You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This.

For what it's worth I used Cannabalize I all the way until I hit 54, then I switched to Cannabalize III, skipping II entirely. I won't lie and say using Cannabalize I that whole time was convenient, but it really wasn't that inconvenient. Then when I switched to Cannabalize III the HP loss was a bit of a shock at first, but I got used to it pretty quickly.

So, I'm not saying anyone should do what I did. I'm just saying that whatever inefficiencies one Cannabalize might have over another, they just aren't that meaningful. Really, any of the three are viable at any of the levels they're available ... well, except maybe Cannabalize I; if you keep using that past 54 I think something's wrong with you [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]