Potential changes to the way CHA works for enchanters

[Dolalin]

Originally Posted by pink grapefruit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought the only reason swarm kiting didn't work was bc they couldn't code it in properly? Every old bard should remember swarming TD raptors, right?

Swarm kiting should work if all of the aggro/hate mechanics that Torven outlined in this thread of his are implemented properly:

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39819

Specifically the proximity aggro bit and hate list transfer:

If every player on a NPC's hate list is outside of melee range, and they all have similar hate levels, the NPC will prefer to attack the closer player.


There is some sort of hate bonus applied that scales by distance to the target only if the NPC is not close enough to hit somebody. If you attempt to train an NPC over somebody who has the same amount of hate as you do, it will chase after them instead of you from a variable distance that is larger when the hate difference is smaller. The more hate you have over them, the closer you have to bring the NPC to them in order for it to attack them. Like other bonuses, this bonus isn't terribly large so it's rather trivial to overcome. This bonus seems to taper down to 0 roughly 100 distance away, or perhaps some factor of the NPC's size/melee range. This is of course very difficult to measure.

NPCs calling for help will cause them to social aggro on players even after they are already aggro on another player.

There is an issue on the emus where, for example, you can aggro an NPC, then drag it nearby another NPC on the same faction that is engaged with another player, and you will not get on the hate list of that second NPC. This is incorrect behavior. NPCs will share who they hate with each other even after entering combat.

[pink grapefruit]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Swarm kiting should work if all of the aggro/hate mechanics that Torven outlined in this thread of his are implemented properly:

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39819

Specifically the proximity aggro bit and hate list transfer:

Omgggg I hope so!!

Swarming was always my preferred method of soloing and it always sucked it never worked here. It causes less zone disruption than AE kiting too so if true this is a win for everyone.

Still not sure if I’ll be playing bard or ranger for the upcoming new pvp server. Tough decision 😁

[Tann]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Swarm kiting should work if all of the aggro/hate mechanics that Torven outlined in this thread of his are implemented properly:

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39819

Specifically the proximity aggro bit and hate list transfer:

So I wasn't wrong remembering aggro working like this at some point? Neat.

[rustyfingers]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow, zero respect for classic in this thread: people bitching about how they won't play this class/game if they can't play with unclassic power [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I say nerf the hell out of charisma, Enchanters, and/or charming: as long as it's classic I'm 100% for it!

(And for the record, I don't remember charm being anything like it is here on live.)

Are you some kind of fundamentalist / talibans of everquest ?

Who really cares about things being absolutely classic or not, as long as they re fun for people who plays an enchater ?
You dont like how charisma works ? fine, dont play an enchanter then, problem solved.

And in case you did not notice, games design changes over years/ decades, what was acceptable in 1999 would be considered as bad game design even 5 years after.

If we all play EQ still 22 years after its creation, let's not forget that, while we all love the game, it have some massive game design flaws , lots of terrible zone design, very poor itemization, afterthought class design and so on.

You dont have to be overzealous to love something .

[Tunabros]

I'm still playing my enchanter

and I'm gonna roll a new one on green this time

think I will do a dark elf this time hah

[Tann]

Originally Posted by rustyfingers [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you some kind of fundamentalist / talibans of everquest ?

You clearly don't remember or never read posts by Daldaen if you think Loramin is the fun police.

I'm all for this change if it's classic, but using eqlive data to justify a change to a velious era server seems off.

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Tann [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You clearly don't remember or never read posts by Daldaen if you think Loramin is the fun police.

I'm all for this change if it's classic, but using eqlive data to justify a change to a velious era server seems off.

I don’t like getting the rug ripped out from under you

There was a lot of enchanter hate a few months back on the off topic and rants and flame boards about charm where how charm functioned in classic vs p99 was argued at at no point did any developer come in and say they planned to look at adjusting charm at some future point

I would have really appreciated the heads up because I wouldn’t have committed the time to a class I expected to get nerfed months down the road. I understand that maybe even the majority of people can and will adapt to sudden nerfs such as these but I purposefully sought out P99 and then an enchanter because I thought balancing changes were done. At this point all I can be is grateful that I can get out now versus having sunk even more time and attention into the game and class

“It’ll be a minor change, enchanters are still OP”. Fine, let’s accept both points. What also has been proven is the devs don’t like how enchanters charm performs, and there’s no guarantee that they will be satisfied after the change, and I now know that they do not communicate their intentions in advance (which I ABSOLUTELY do not fault them for, this is not a paid position, they are under NO obligation to). But what this all means is there’s no guarantee that there won’t be additional future changes or nerfs to charm or some other function of enchanters and that change most likely won’t come with any advanced notification. And that just doesn’t sit well with me and why I sought this server out

[Seducio]

If this change happens then enchanters seeking CHA gear will become a thing of the past. Instead a newly minted enchanter could focus on HP, AC, and resists. The need to drive for 205 CHA to be able to self buff up to 255 CHA will no longer be the key to longer charms.

The end result is Enchanters will be more powerful naked than before the change if it were to occur.

Certain high value CHA items like neriad shawl would become less important overnight.

It'll be interesting whether the change happens or not.

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Seducio [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If this change happens then enchanters seeking CHA gear will become a thing of the past. Instead a newly minted enchanter could focus on HP, AC, and resists. The need to drive for 205 CHA to be able to self buff up to 255 CHA will no longer be the key to longer charms.

The end result is Enchanters will be more powerful naked than before the change if it were to occur.

Certain high value CHA items like neriad shawl would become less important overnight.

It'll be interesting whether the change happens or not.

I think this makes the class more bland, less interesting

I enjoyed the concept of focusing on cha to start but as mobs started to become more and more threatening as I got up in levels micromanaging where in my gear I could afford to make swaps for +ac/hp while still retaining the high cha

On takp cha only functions for the initial charm resist chance. In at least 1000 charms I’ve done on my char’s lifetime I can’t recall ever getting an initial resist. So that point is completely irrelevant, no one is going to be trying to charm yellows anyway. So now you don’t need a full time cha set, just something to strap on after you want to blur or lull

Now there’s no calculated cha sacrifice or substitutions. Now the amount of ac or hp along with cha on gear is irrelevant, since you’ll only be wearing your cha gear for like less than 2% of your playtime unless you are non-stop lulling through a dungeon for some reason

It just dumbs the class down. And that guy on green server who posted that he solo’d getting the neriad shawl at lev 49 even though it took like 25+ deaths? Sucks to be him [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[ghostwalker]

Originally Posted by Tann [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^^ to add

"Geoffrey Zatkin answered a question in 1999 where he claimed that charisma had a role in charm durations. He was also either wrong or charm changed before PoP went Live...As a developer myself I can attest that it's easy to get stuff wrong when taking a cursory look at code, so disputing developer claims isn't as presumptuous as it seems."

https://youtu.be/gqW42BFqVjo at 23:10 Geoffrey Zatkin talks about designing enchanters... 30:10 when he mentions charm.

Just saying, I don't think he was "taking a cursory look at code" when he said CHA effects charm duration considered he designed them.

I don't think this should be overlooked... if the guy who created and designed the class is saying that CHA is essential to how charm functions, then perhaps this should be heeded. Things did change with Luclin and POP, and as others have pointed out, who is to say that TAKP is "more" classic when it is based on that era, and not classic? Why would you make CHA irrelevant, completely contradicting the designer's own words?