The Legacy Problem

[skorge]

Originally Posted by zodium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

These items are only a problem precisely because they're so fun and iconic and representative of "classicness" that there is no classic without them.

First of all don't be surprised with all the hate you get here...you will receive responses such as "server is launching in 3 days why did you wait so long to talk about this..."

Secondly I would like to mention that Zodium is literally a walking legend within the P99 community...he was a part of Shards of Dalaya which was an amazing EQ emu. When he talks he knows his stuff.

Finally, he is right by stating the above. Ideally the best solution for the staff's sake would be to completely remove these items but then at that point the server is no longer considered classic to many people, which defeats the purpose of P99.

If they were made no-drop it would completely change the population of P99 as well - people would just play classes that could actually use it.

That said, the list may be the best option out there. That's probably the exact thought process that went in on in designing the list, lol

[Cen]

There's no real good reason why they took the guise out anyway. After all, they eventually put it back in the game [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[pink grapefruit]

It's difficult to understand what this rambling and unnecessarily long post is even saying. You're suggesting that they increase the drop rate of these items and put lore tags on everything instead of adding in "The List"??

Your reasons for suggesting this are convoluted and poorly explained. Wtf does "aesthetically classic" mean, and why is it something that matters to anyone?

All I'm really getting from this post is that green would benefit greatly from pvp camp dispute mechanics, which is something everyone already knows.

[Fammaden]

Add me to the list that thinks the items simply shouldn't have existed, and interesting point that there WERE classic era servers that never had them in the first place. (Incidentally, if you remove them you have to remove hybrid penalties too IMO.)

The lore/nodrop/soulbound until MS is removed is a good plan too, second best idea to me.

Another, very non classic, approach would have been to just say yes they will drop for X amount of time, but not off a specific named with a static PH. They will be .0001% chance drops off any level ____ or higher mob in the game, good luck. Like a WoW style world-drop-epic.

Anyway, as someone who is personally very good at ignoring in game status symbols, power gaming clickies, and wealth hoarding (yet always still manages max levels and raid content participation), I don't really care. BUT its interesting to me that manastone is of dubious usefulness and practicality, guise is wholly cosmetic and flavor based....but the least talked about and lusted over item, quest free jboots, is by far the most versatile and most widely useful across all classes and races.

All because the guise and MS go away and become some sort of mythical white unicorn, yet jboots is one of the most persistently toxic and complained about camps on blue but virtually no one seems worried about how many will drop or what the scene in Najena will be. The majority who complain about potential camp lockdowns or toxic manipultion of the list system, are later content to just turn the world over to greedy profiteers who will keep jboots on lock down in the future because its easiest to just farm your plat and buy jboots like they are on a vendor.

TLDR: Manastone and guise are just mind over matter. I don't mind if I never get one, so they do not matter.

[Daldaen]

Best solution is to launch with classic populations.

If you look at the old server select screenshots which show populations, you see a bunch of 700-1200 populations. Not any 2000-3000s.

If on launch we are seeing 3000, that really should be split into 2 servers for the duration of classic. Splitting the population in half will double the legacy camps available to the total population which will help the most.

Server splits and mergers are very classic.

The problem of course is $. Because additional server hardware costs money.

[Fammaden]

Well, many of us assume that the initial 3k could become 1500 within as little as a week, and could continue to sink lower than that. I think Rogean has made it clear that if we are pushing 3k+ over a longer term then additional hardware is in the conversation.

[Chortles Snort|eS]

TLDR from a wASNt guN leAvE bLuE OP

didn’t read

[zodium]

Originally Posted by skorge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First of all don't be surprised with all the hate you get here...you will receive responses such as "server is launching in 3 days why did you wait so long to talk about this..."

Secondly I would like to mention that Zodium is literally a walking legend within the P99 community...he was a part of Shards of Dalaya which was an amazing EQ emu. When he talks he knows his stuff.

Finally, he is right by stating the above. Ideally the best solution for the staff's sake would be to completely remove these items but then at that point the server is no longer considered classic to many people, which defeats the purpose of P99.

If they were made no-drop it would completely change the population of P99 as well - people would just play classes that could actually use it.

That said, the list may be the best option out there. That's probably the exact thought process that went in on in designing the list, lol

Wow, um, thank you. Though, as anyone who played SoD during my tenure will remember, I'm not concerned with the amount of hate I receive. :>

As for why I waited, it's because List was only announced recently and it took some time to reflect on what the mechanic entails for gameplay, I guess.

Originally Posted by Cen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's no real good reason why they took the guise out anyway. After all, they eventually put it back in the game [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Add me to the list that thinks the items simply shouldn't have existed [...] All because these items go away and become some sort of mythical white unicorn, yet jboots is one of the most persistently toxic and complained about camps on blue but virtually no one seems worried about how many will drop or what the scene in Najena will be. The majority who complain about potential camp lockdowns or toxic gaming of the systems, are later content to just turn the world over to greedy profiteers who will keep jboots on lock down in the future because its easiest to just farm your plat and buy jboots like they are on a vendor.

TLDR: Manastone and guise are just mind over matter. I don't mind if I never get one, so they do not matter.

Cen essentially makes my point. I think Fammaden takes a very minmaxing-centric perspective in concluding it's "just mind over matter" because the items lack functional utility. We're not talking about impulse controlling your fast food intake here. The items are not particularly powerful. The issues stem from undesirable gameplay arising, paradoxically, from the fact the items are simply very fun to use. What matter are you minding over here, exactly? See:

Originally Posted by zodium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As a Manastone owner on Blue, I can tell you yes, Manastones are every bit as fun as they look. Regardless of efficiency, it is a very fun mechanic with a very fun visual effect. You'd be crazy not to want one, of course, like a great musician who died too young, they became an iconic item!

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Best solution is to launch with classic populations.

If you look at the old server select screenshots which show populations, you see a bunch of 700-1200 populations. Not any 2000-3000s.

If on launch we are seeing 3000, that really should be split into 2 servers for the duration of classic. Splitting the population in half will double the legacy camps available to the total population which will help the most.

Server splits and mergers are very classic.

The problem of course is $. Because additional server hardware costs money.

Yeah, this is the much larger "Classic Problem": shit's just not financially viable. But much like civil war reenactors don't require their armies to grow food using 1850's technology because it would turn the ordeal into a historical farming reenactment, I believe we too can adjust our blind spots. If we stick with List, that's alright too, I just think this would be a win-win-win for everyone.

[skorge]

I personally feel they should have beta tested the list more...maybe bump everyone up to level 50 and give people a reason to actually camp the stone, such as a Giveaway (imagine if they promised to give 1 manastone, 1 guise, and 1 jboots out at server launch - whoever tested the list on beta would be in the roll).

This way they would get a huge pile of people beta testing the list to see how effective it is...it doesn't make sense to launch the new server in just 3 days...but to each their own. I know many people are ready for Friday.

[Izmael]

I've read the OP but failed to understand the point he is trying to make.

Owning a couple legacy items myself, I'm not particularly glad more of these will enter Blue. But I see Green as an opportunity to get some other legacy items I do not own, such as a Guise and maybe some warder loot later on. So it kind of balances things out.

If the OP already owns everything and can't possibly look forward to getting something new on Green - well, I guess he won the game. Maybe it's time to focus on something else than accumulating wealth?