Shocking leaked image shows spirit of compromise on p99 in A/A's absence!

[Breaken]

This weekend is probably the best argument for a server split. Take 300+ raiders out of the mix and everyone's amazed that they get a better chance at content. It's a population problem, doesn't matter what guilds are at the top.

The fact that everyone worked together for one week is not surprising. See what it devolves into after a few months. We already know though.

I don't even play P99, but I logged into ToV yesterday and saw over half a dozen guilds having a great time, with virtually zero poopsocking required.

Poopsocking is created by the staff. Variance requires socking. Before variance, when it was first in force, that required socking. The only time socking is not needed is on full server spawns, whether from server crashes/patches or earthquakes.

Replace all weekly spawns with earthquakes and you should see these half dozen guilds having a great time. They proved this week (to no ones surprise) that they can kill these Velious targets. So, if all mobs were to spawn, they have plenty of options to go contest. I would expect a guild to go straight for Statue/AoW. I would expect another to go straight for Dain, KT, Yelinak, Zlandicar, CT, or any ToV dragon they choose to FTE.

Admittedly, ToV would be very crowded, but that would be the choice of the guild heading there. This would keep the competition aspect of the server, while still distributing mobs because one or two guilds cannot kill everything before the 6 or so others get theirs.

[Fasttimes]

Originally Posted by Breaken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact that everyone worked together for one week is not surprising. See what it devolves into after a few months. We already know though.



Poopsocking is created by the staff. Variance requires socking. Before variance, when it was first in force, that required socking. The only time socking is not needed is on full server spawns, whether from server crashes/patches or earthquakes.

Replace all weekly spawns with earthquakes and you should see these half dozen guilds having a great time. They proved this week (to no ones surprise) that they can kill these Velious targets. So, if all mobs were to spawn, they have plenty of options to go contest. I would expect a guild to go straight for Statue/AoW. I would expect another to go straight for Dain, KT, Yelinak, Zlandicar, CT, or any ToV dragon they choose to FTE.

Admittedly, ToV would be very crowded, but that would be the choice of the guild heading there. This would keep the competition aspect of the server, while still distributing mobs because one or two guilds cannot kill everything before the 6 or so others get theirs.

OR just do Awakened solo/FFA/aftermath Solo/Casual weekend with no A/A

[Daldaen]

I would imagine the biggest thing holding casual guilds back is also the scheduled raid vs. batphoned raid.

Knowing you've got Yelinak up and you can go after him at 7PM in your prime time zone. People will camp out in advance and log in for this is they know it's a guaranteed attempt.

But if you're aiming at a 5-8PM window where you're going to race, people aren't going to precamp out because many only have one toon. People also aren't really inclined to have a free window where they can instantly be made available for a raid when they'd like to do other things in EQ. Getting out of a Crypt or HS group at 6 PM when a raid mob spawns isn't exactly easy/natural for many of these players. I remember being in Sebilis one time when Trakanon spawned, 2 guys in the group instantly /quit out from TMO and IB then exploited their IP exemptions to log on their precamped 60s.

It wouldn't even dawn on many casuals to do this, let along bail on their group in a more respectful way. Many times that leaves the group hanging and totally cripples their ability to continue camping whatever they were camping.

Now if you wanted to leave every target up until 7PM and then race for a few targets using /random to signal the start, ignoring all the tracking nonsense I'm sure you could get some interested.

[Phantasm]

The best part about this is that absolutely nothing will change. Like literally nothing.

Have had the same issue for as long as i can remember. Instead of one guild doing whatever necessary for content you now have two.

I have no problem with invested time = reward, but dont pretend the 1400 people other than A/A are going to be happy about it

[Breaken]

Set the earthquake on a 16 hour variance, and have a serverwide emote announcing the respawn an hour in advance. This gives all raiders time to batphone and mobilize. They can get to the mob they plan to kill first, see the competition at said mob, and decide if they want to compete against that raid or move to another.

You would have to require raids to stay at zone in though. Thinking specific for ToV, Kael races, but for CT, you would not zone in until the earthquake, and Skyshrine, you cannot start cothing until the earthquake, etc.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Triiz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This may come as a shock to you, but literally pretty much every non-neckbeard hates neckbeards. It's hardly a term of endearment.

And yes I'm a bystander as in I refuse to participate in the raid scene in the state that it's been since I began playing p99. I hold out hope that the raiding scene will change and the majority will win the day, thus I am rooting for the casuals. If it doesn't change, that's fine too it's Nillbog's server.

This may come as a shock to you but even within the 'neckbeard' guilds there are actually probably more casual players than you would ever imagine.

The difference comes ( as we all know ) is whether there is a handful of people within the guild willing to do all the crazy socking/fteing/tracking etc that the raid scene meta has turned into. Point being, the core of the vast majority of guilds here are very much casual by nature.

The hardcore guilds were just built to handle the demands of a batphone raid any time of the day ( over time, see carrot/stick analogy ). Granted some hours of the day are easier to do this than others but that's some of the fun - you literally never know who is logging in and what kind of raid force make up you may have. This is why alts are geared etc etc etc etc.

Point being, Rome wasn't built in a day. I saw hundreds of Everquest raiders log on for now nearly Day 2 of hours upon hours of straight raiding. I find it hard to believe, esp now when alliances span most active guilds and around the globe, that there couldnt be methods to play within the rules that are established for FTE. I get Chest's point, no one wants to make Everquest their job and that's how the hardcores butter their bread. Sure, casuals can progress but at what cost he will argue. My argument though is the structure is there for very cushiony progression and frequent casual contesting of any spawn in the game - you just have to CONTROL YOURSELF.

This has always been a major issue and something that kept Taken out of class C for so long way back when. Its that self control that so many raiders lack makes progress feel unobtainable bc guilds view their success on uncontested kills as a doctrine to have those experiences over and over again without the effort. Rather than enjoying the climb up the mountain, we want to take the elevator to the top ( it is a 18 year old mountain after all, I was already up it a few times in my youth ). There is nothing stopping guilds from focusing on small aspects of the contested target experience while gaining the skills needed to beat A/A to anything out there. Once you get yellow text on a mob - its yours for an hour. Ignore the shit happening around you and focus on getting that mob into camp, and if thats the issue that prevents you from succeeding well you spend time honing on how to do ABC better for the next time. A/A did not appear overnight- but that's whats great about classic EQ, you build your empire. If A/A were to poof suddenly, there would just simply be a new alpha dog on the top of the food chain.

Which brings us to the core issue - what is next? Once you killed something in hardcore land, the primary objective becomes 'how can we kill this faster' and 'with less people'. That is where the focus for up and coming guilds should be ( especially within their own individual structures ) rather than focusing on how to get mobs rotated to them more often. Yes Velious has been out a year now and not going anywhere but does that mean you just flip the switch to rotate everything? Rotations are sloppy and not every entity should belong in them leading to eventual Class R forum arguments about allotted time and protocols. There will always always always be rulelawyers focused on these mobs - rotations will not get rid of skype chats agreements.

Alas, all this has been an issue from the beginning of time on this server and rule changes always seem to be something that is inevitable when enough people speak out.

/soapbox hehe

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Breaken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Set the earthquake on a 16 hour variance, and have a serverwide emote announcing the respawn an hour in advance. This gives all raiders time to batphone and mobilize. They can get to the mob they plan to kill first, see the competition at said mob, and decide if they want to compete against that raid or move to another.

You would have to require raids to stay at zone in though. Thinking specific for ToV, Kael races, but for CT, you would not zone in until the earthquake, and Skyshrine, you cannot start cothing until the earthquake, etc.

this is the best solution and has been asked for many times - everyone wants to mobilize race which is the best and most fun part of Earthquakes.

Druids/Wizards become useful and literally your entire guild has to come together moving mountains. Its really great and would spread targets around.

If everything is up at once, A/A can only kill 1 mob at a time. If you have 5-8 raid capable entities running around engaging bosses that means more importance is placed on efficiency and executing rather than how much time is left in our lock.

[Ravager]

Make every guild Class R. Make every mob class R. If a mob is left up 6 hours it goes FFA and locked out guilds can get it. There'll still be "competition", the top guilds will still get the majority of the pixels, but lockouts will make the barrier to raiding less ridiculous. Give everyone who doesn't like it the option for a one way /movechar to red.

[bigjerry]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This may come as a shock to you but even within the 'neckbeard' guilds there are actually probably more casual players than you would ever imagine.

The difference comes ( as we all know ) is whether there is a handful of people within the guild willing to do all the crazy socking/fteing/tracking etc that the raid scene meta has turned into. Point being, the core of the vast majority of guilds here are very much casual by nature.

The hardcore guilds were just built to handle the demands of a batphone raid any time of the day ( over time, see carrot/stick analogy ). Granted some hours of the day are easier to do this than others but that's some of the fun - you literally never know who is logging in and what kind of raid force make up you may have. This is why alts are geared etc etc etc etc.

Point being, Rome wasn't built in a day. I saw hundreds of Everquest raiders log on for now nearly Day 2 of hours upon hours of straight raiding. I find it hard to believe, esp now when alliances span most active guilds and around the globe, that there couldnt be methods to play within the rules that are established for FTE. I get Chest's point, no one wants to make Everquest their job and that's how the hardcores butter their bread. Sure, casuals can progress but at what cost he will argue. My argument though is the structure is there for very cushiony progression and frequent casual contesting of any spawn in the game - you just have to CONTROL YOURSELF.

This has always been a major issue and something that kept Taken out of class C for so long way back when. Its that self control that so many raiders lack makes progress feel unobtainable bc guilds view their success on uncontested kills as a doctrine to have those experiences over and over again without the effort. Rather than enjoying the climb up the mountain, we want to take the elevator to the top ( it is a 18 year old mountain after all, I was already up it a few times in my youth ). There is nothing stopping guilds from focusing on small aspects of the contested target experience while gaining the skills needed to beat A/A to anything out there. Once you get yellow text on a mob - its yours for an hour. Ignore the shit happening around you and focus on getting that mob into camp, and if thats the issue that prevents you from succeeding well you spend time honing on how to do ABC better for the next time. A/A did not appear overnight- but that's whats great about classic EQ, you build your empire. If A/A were to poof suddenly, there would just simply be a new alpha dog on the top of the food chain.

Which brings us to the core issue - what is next? Once you killed something in hardcore land, the primary objective becomes 'how can we kill this faster' and 'with less people'. That is where the focus for up and coming guilds should be ( especially within their own individual structures ) rather than focusing on how to get mobs rotated to them more often. Yes Velious has been out a year now and not going anywhere but does that mean you just flip the switch to rotate everything? Rotations are sloppy and not every entity should belong in them leading to eventual Class R forum arguments about allotted time and protocols. There will always always always be rulelawyers focused on these mobs - rotations will not get rid of skype chats agreements.

Alas, all this has been an issue from the beginning of time on this server and rule changes always seem to be something that is inevitable when enough people speak out.

/soapbox hehe

smart post thank you!

[Tarskin]

I can see an earthquake with variance, as opposed to individual mobs spawning, having a good effect on the raid scene as there will be so many targets up at the same time that every guild that wants something can aim for something (assuming that standard 1 hour fte rules apply).