System rotation target ?

[Troy]

They spent time actively doing stuff, not sitting waiting 4 days for a spawn or waiting for a text message.

With classic spawn timers there was no benefit to playing 12 hours a day for most raid targets. Again, this has been gone over many times in this thread and elsewhere.

Did you miss the first 30 pages?

[ClassMan352]

Thanks a lot...

[YendorLootmonkey]

You're missing everything I'm saying. My point is "time/energy invested was proportional to the progress of your toon/guild". You cannot dispute that. Do not twist or add stuff to that sentence. It is simply "time/energy invested was proportional to the progress of your toon/guild". If you want to progress more than the local uberguild, you have to be willing to put in more time/energy into doing so.

Or, from the other angle, if your group of people puts in LESS time/energy into something, and somehow reap MORE reward than a group of people putting in MORE time/energy into something, is that somehow more fair/fun?

Keep in mind, I'm speaking as a casual player. I know I will never see certain encounters on this server, just as I never saw them on Live. I understand that. Real life is more important to me.

[JenJen]

yendor wins as usual [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[karsten]

yendor, as usual, brings a tempered logic into a topic that i gave up on and started trolling basically at the same time it was created

[JenJen]

i like yendor more than you shhhhh

[Troy]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're missing everything I'm saying. My point is "time/energy invested was proportional to the progress of your toon/guild". You cannot dispute that. Do not twist or add stuff to that sentence. It is simply "time/energy invested was proportional to the progress of your toon/guild". If you want to progress more than the local uberguild, you have to be willing to put in more time/energy into doing so.

Or, from the other angle, if your group of people puts in LESS time/energy into something, and somehow reap MORE reward than a group of people putting in MORE time/energy into something, is that somehow more fair/fun?

Keep in mind, I'm speaking as a casual player. I know I will never see certain encounters on this server, just as I never saw them on Live. I understand that. Real life is more important to me.

Time sitting doing nothing as "investment" is ridiculous and not how classic raiding was. Do you really dispute that?

Classic "time invested" involved ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Troy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Time sitting doing nothing as "investment" is ridiculous and not how classic raiding was. Do you really dispute that?

Classic "time invested" involved ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME.

Because there are 349683496 (exaggerated for effect) hard core raiders all crammed into one server with about 10 raid targets, which also isn't classic, "time invested" here means:

Cultivating a raid force
Gathering intel on spawn windows
Positioning and logging into trackers
Creating a text/Twitter communications network outside of game
Mobilizing for the target within minutes of spawn

To them, all of that is "ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME". It is a whole different level than what you or I consider "ACTUALLY PLAYING THE GAME". They are not "doing nothing", in their minds. They are "doing what it takes to beat everyone else to the target." To them, that is the game. Not pressing auto-attack and popping a few complete heals and getting some pixels.

Assuming that raid forces A, B, and C all have good intel on the mob spawn window (note as variance decreases, that intel needs to be way more precise, which is another aspect to "the game they are actually playing"), the less variance on respawn down to a limit of 0, the more information everyone has on when that boss will randomly spawn.

The more information everyone has on when a mob is going to spawn, the more it's going to come down to who is willing to 'poopsock' X amount of time. As that X decreases, more people are open to sitting around waiting for the mob to spawn. So you have more raid forces present, and then it essentially becomes FTE.

So all the skill and prep work and mobilization planning and everything that creates this competition all comes down to, as someone said earlier, who fires the arrow first. Is that really competition any longer? Is it fun anymore? Is that really what we want? Shit, we may as well /random the boss mob between guilds present then.

At least now, the variance is so great, only the guild(s) who really want to do what it takes to get the mob are attempting it. Unless the rest of us light a fire under our asses and try to out-mobilize them, we aren't even on the same level unless we get lucky and happen to be there doing something else (i.e. Hate clear, FG clear, etc) when the mob spawns. Less drama, less screaming, less GM intervention. In that light, it is completely understandable why variance is in.

Because we failed to act like mature adults and to work things out on our own.

[Troy]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So all the skill and prep work and mobilization planning and everything that creates this competition all comes down to, as someone said earlier, who fires the arrow first. Is that really competition any longer? Is it fun anymore? Is that really what we want? Shit, we may as well /random the boss mob between guilds present then.


Because we failed to act like mature adults and to work things out on our own.

First paragraph: Aren't there people in TR all over the boards talking about how much better they are at the actual fights? Why don't they let it be down to "chance" who gets first shot, if they think everyone else is going to wipe anyway? Let them prove that they are actually that good...

Last line: Well yeah, that's how people are on the internet everywhere. Set someone in front of a computer and they become a jackass, it just works that way whether you're dealing with teenagers (classic) or "adults" (p99).

[Rhambuk]

At least now, the variance is so great, only the guild(s) who really want to do what it takes to get the mob are attempting it. Unless the rest of us light a fire under our asses and try to out-mobilize them, we aren't even on the same level unless we get lucky and happen to be there doing something else (i.e. Hate clear, FG clear, etc) when the mob spawns. Less drama, less screaming, less GM intervention. In that light, it is completely understandable why variance is in.

If more guilds competed you would see more petitions about target disputes and i bet not before to long the gm's would remove the variance because it stopped working, takes gm's out of the raid scene.

The variance just sets the bar so damn high that only a small percentage of the server can do what it takes to get targets. Most people can't be at a moments notice withing a 96 hour window to log on and mobilize, a 96 hour window is kind of unreasonable...