Necromancer Decision

[commongood]

Originally Posted by GnomeCaptain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This game isn't a tax return, it's not to be optimized mathematically.

Have fun, play whatever you want, race means literally nothing beyond what you like seeing.

You are literally wrong. It has actual implications [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree with the first part of that sentence though

[Snortles Chortles]

I can NOT stand being a lizard
Though I finally noticed ERU Lich @20+, I still find hp/mana mgmt a reasonably manageable challenge

GiT GuD

[Vexenu]

Erudite Necros are quite good. Between their innate high INT and having access to some easily attainable items high INT/mana that Iksar Necros can't use (i.e. GEBs, Mantle of Souls, Tome of Miragul) they end up with an enormous mana advantage over Iksars. I made these two Magelos awhile ago to demonstrate this. The gear here is mid-level Kunark era PvP/resist gear, but the mana discrepancy holds until endgame Velious gear. The Erudite Necro has about 500 more mana than the Iksar in comparable gear. That's enormous. This advantage is most expressed in PvP, but the math works out that Erudites are objectively mathematically better than Iksars until regen is able to work for about 15-20 minutes, at which point Iksars pull ahead in efficiency. However, it is doubtful they are ever able to maintain a 20% efficiency advantage when XPing, which makes them level slower despite their regen advantage. It's also worth noting that most 50+ Necro leveling when you're really using charm heavily does not benefit as much from Iksar regen, because you are finishing most kills with a Deflux lifetap anyway, the healing portion of which is simply wasted on an Iksar.

In summary, Erudite Necros are highly underrated. They are not better than Iksars overall, but they are easily a strong second place, and a closer runner up than most people would think.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Iksarmancer

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Erudmancer

[DMN]

Originally Posted by zoso [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is it worth it to play a DE Necro?

What I mean is: When Kunark drops, am I going to feel compelled to re-roll an Iksar and level it 1-60 because the Iksar regen overpowers Dark Elf?

From what I've read, it's not just an issue of "min-max"; it's an issue of necessity.

Does anyone have any insight beyond the Sesserdix guide that basically says, "If you aren't Iksar, you're doing it wrong mathematically"?

It's certainly not a necessity. It gives you a minor but notable bit of a bump in mana efficiency.

But I'm sure his guide doesn't mention the fact that if you are in many grouping and raid situations you'll often be able to have access to buffs that almost entirely offset the lich line's damage. There are also items,though rare and highly sought after, that will also increase HP regeneration and get you closer to offsetting the life lost,too.

The important take-away point is that a non iksar in lich regenerates the exact same amount of mana per tick as an Iksar one does.

Now you can come up with some theoretical scenarios where even if you offset the damage via buffs/gears the iksar can toss a HoT on someone every now and then if they had the same buffs/gear. But you are really getting down to minor details at that point.

So when considering playing a necro now or later so youcould take an iksar I'd think about several things:

1. do i plan to primarily solo or do I plan to group/raid more often? The closer you are to soloing mostly on this spectrum, the more you should consider iksar.

2a. How much do I care about acquiring the legacy items available when kunark arrives, as they will only be around a short time and many of them will require your toon to be 50+.

2b. If i do care about some of these items, can I spent umpteen hours a day every day of the week to catch up in time to get them with my necro or doI plan to skip rolling an iksar for a long time and use some other character before I finally go back to rolling up the iksar necro.

3. Can you stand to look like a bipedal lizard and have some of the most hideous animations ever seen in a game?


Full disclosure though,I have an icky necro on blue, but I started there long after velious had already been released.Apples/oranges.

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Erudite Necros ... are not better than Iksars overall, but they are easily a strong second place...

So what makes Erudites that much better than DE / Gnome? Is it just the 8-9 int and Mantle of Souls?

The int advantage seems somewhat offset by the 70 starting agi of the Erudite, esp. if you compensate with starting points.

I'm also curious how much more mana the mantle gives to a similarity available mantle for other races. I'm also assuming this washes out at some point with raid gear.

The gnome faction/infravision seem great, and people claim tinkering is good for creating probes to lifetap—though I am unsure how to rate this.

DE has hide/ultravision, which both have some value/utility. There is also a bunch of DE only crap, like CH sticks and the bind ring that have to be worth something.

Similar to OP, I'm strongly considering rolling a necro asap.

[Baler]

Originally Posted by GinnasP99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DE necros can also do this quest http://wiki.project1999.com/Reaper_of_the_Dead

This

ps. I rolled erudite necro, I have my reasons I don't care to share publicly atm.

[Jimjam]

Those resist gear erud vs necro profiles were really interesting. The Erud just slips ahead on MR and cumulative fire/cold. At first I was disappointed with the -25 hp on the erud… until I saw it has like 500 more mana than the necromancer.

That was crazy.I know people will say "It's easy to cap int on almost any necro", but I guess the erud does it earlier, so can start gearing with extra survival or mana gear earlier?

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what makes Erudites that much better than DE / Gnome? Is it just the 8-9 int and Mantle of Souls?.

Erud have +5Mr over most races. I don't think this is so important, but it's there. They start with 70 agi, which is disappointing; either you're fixing with gear and taking extra hits naked or you are putting starting points into it and losing 5 of that int advantage.

I do feel like the Erud is to casters as halflings were to melee; not given the credit they were due.

At least all the reputable halfling fighers of the forums; all your Filbuses, Eabbons, Gustoos and so ons, have raised the profile of the diminutive halfling in the eyes of the p99 community.

We need some equitable champions for the humble erudite out there - Dark Men is a good start, but we need more big personas doing things in and out of game!

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This

ps. I rolled erudite necro, I have my reasons I don't care to share publicly atm.

Don't be ashamed, the female ones are cute. We won't mock you for your little 'dead sexy genie' [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DMN]

My necro on blue doesn't wear any + mana/int items unless they just happem to be on good +hp/ac items as well.


Necro has no reason to ever mana dump. only quaders should ever worry much about total mana pool.

[Snortles Chortles]

for my ERU NEC i went all points STA except for 5 STR
totally forgot about 75 AC so i wear a pear of Obsidian Bead Hoops
don't get hit naked?

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My necro on blue doesn't wear any + mana/int items unless they just happem to be on good +hp/ac items as well.


Necro has no reason to ever mana dump. only quaders should ever worry much about total mana pool.

+HP is obviously hugely important for Necros, but saying that max mana pool doesn't matter is pretty silly. If you're doing something like breaking a room solo you might end up throwing out 6-7 Paralyzing Earth roots in a row. Those add up fast at 100 mana a pop. Then you might get a charm break, requiring a re-charm and a couple of Deflux casts to heal yourself back up. That's a total of 1400 mana you could chew through in about one minute if the shit hits the fan. And that's not exactly an uncommon scenario. The high end DoTs are mana-intensive too. Vexing and Pyro together are 900 mana.

So you definitely don't want to ignore your total mana pool entirely in favor of HP. There needs to be a balance. Both keep you alive. A Necro with zero health is obviously dead, but a Necro with zero mana is soon to be dead anyway, and useless in the meanwhile.