Please check my math on Troll vs Ogre Shaman

[Berendar]

I got the snare necklace on Blue a couple of years ago and unless it has changed since then, it was almost worthless. It took ages to cast and lasted a couple of ticks.

People also always discount the quality of life thing with FSI. I always noticed getting constantly stunned on my Troll and Barbarian in just day to day gameplay after playing a Ogre to the point where it became annoying. I always tank mobs though as not a fan of root/rotting if I can avoid it.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Berendar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I got the snare necklace on Blue a couple of years ago and unless it has changed since then, it was almost worthless. It took ages to cast and lasted a couple of ticks.

Snare can save a ton of mana both grouping and soloing at high levels, that alone makes it valuable. There are a couple other tricks you can pull off with it, nothing major or anything but certainly useful if the situation arises.

Originally Posted by Berendar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People also always discount the quality of life thing with FSI. I always noticed getting constantly stunned on my Troll and Barbarian in just day to day gameplay after playing a Ogre to the point where it became annoying. I always tank mobs though as not a fan of root/rotting if I can avoid it.

Ahh, that's nice. I find people who don't know what they are talking about annoying.

[kjs86z]

Don't mind DMN. He's incredibly obtuse.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Berendar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People also always discount the quality of life thing with FSI. I always noticed getting constantly stunned on my Troll and Barbarian in just day to day gameplay after playing a Ogre to the point where it became annoying. I always tank mobs though as not a fan of root/rotting if I can avoid it.

This is exactly how I summed up FSI many pages ago in this thread. The main benefit for shaman FSI is not having to deal with the annoyance of being stunned. Whether or not it will actually save your life And improve your gameplay is highly debatable, whereas the regen is always there Working for you the second you dip below 100% hp. The benefit of snare Neck vs FSI is a toss up. Regen gives the min max edge to trolls.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is exactly how I summed up FSI many pages ago in this thread. The main benefit for shaman FSI is not having to deal with the annoyance of being stunned. Whether or not it will actually save your life And improve your gameplay is highly debatable, whereas the regen is always there Working for you the second you dip below 100% hp. The benefit of snare Neck vs FSI is a toss up. Regen gives the min max edge to trolls.

Both FSI and Regeneration are quantifiable. Here is a video showing me killing Hechaeva in WW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEgFcImQ9XU

As I posted in the description:

1:47 - Bash happens in-between spell casts. Saves 1.5 seconds of stun time.
5:25 - Bash happens during Curse of The Spirits casting near the end. Doesn't get interrupted. Saves 9 seconds (1.5 from stun and the 7 or so seconds from the spent cast time).
5:55 - Bash happens during Torpor casting near the end. Doesn't get interrupted. Save 6 seconds (1.5 from stun and 4.5 or so seconds from the spent cast time).
6:28 - Bash happens in-between spell casts. Saves 1.5 seconds of stun time.
6:57 - Bash happens during Torpor casting near the end. Doesn't get interrupted. Saves 6 seconds (1.5 from stun and 4.5 or so seconds into the cast time).
7:30 - Bash happens during Cannibalize casting half way. Gets interrupted. Saves 0.25 seconds (1.25 lost from interruption, 1.5 gained from stun time).
8:00 - Bash happens during Cannibalize at the end of the cast. Doesn't get interrupted. Saves 4 seconds (1.5 from stun and 2.5 or so seconds into the cast time).
9:03 - Bash happens during Cannibalize casting half way. Gets interrupted. Saves 0.25 seconds (1.25 lost from interruption, 1.5 gained from stun time).
9:35 - Bash happens during Torpor casting near the end. Doesn't get interrupted. Saves 7 seconds (1.5 from stun and 5.5 or so seconds into the cast time).
10:06 - Bash happens during Winters Roar at the end of the cast. Doesn't get interrupted. Saves 8 seconds (1.5 from stun and 6.5 or so seconds into the cast time).
11:09 - Bash happens in between casting. Saves 1.5 seconds.
12:43 - Bash happens near the beginning of Winters Roar. Doesn't get interrupted. Saves 3 seconds (1.5 from stun and 1.5 or so seconds into the cast time).

Total time saved: Up to 48 seconds. There is no way to know which bashes would have been stuns.

With a video time of 22 minutes from the start of the encounter to finishing the encounter and getting back to 100%, a Troll would have regenerated 1760 HP more than me in that fight. You can see I never got below 10% health. Troll Regeneration would not have done anything to quicken the fight, or save my life. Trolls saved 1.5 Torpors worth of health. Since it did not save my life, the only thing Troll Regeneration would have done is save 48 seconds of healing at the end of the fight. Then you would be at 100% HP, and not regenerating.

FSI quickened the fight up to 48 seconds, depending on which bashes would have been stuns. FSI gave me benefits during the fight, where Troll Regeneration would only give me benefits after the fight.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Both FSI and Regeneration are quantifiable... There is no way to know which bashes would have been stuns.

Hrrrmmmm. And if you would have fought that fight and no bashes even landed at all. Your quantifiable analysis of FSI would be?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hrrrmmmm. And if you would have fought that fight and no bashes landed atall on you ever. Your quantifiable opinion of the results would be?

I never said it wasn't variable. I am giving an example. Let's say that situation happened in my video. Trolls would have still only saved 48 seconds at the end of the fight[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Just because I do not know the exact percent chance of FSI triggering, doesn't mean I can't show exactly how much time you could have saved. That is quantifiable. Even if the Server Dev's gave us the code, so we could see the percentage, it is possible FSI would trigger 0 times if you are unlucky. It could also trigger 100% of the time if you are lucky[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] The only thing we can't say for sure is "FSI triggers 30% of the time, so you would have saved 30% of 48 seconds on average". Since we do not know the percentage, we can only give the best case scenario.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I made a video showing how you don't really need snare to get down to the entrance of Crypt in Seb. Having high resistances and using Line of Sight is more than good enough to avoid most spells from these Frogs in Seb. It isn't really necessary to snare a caster to prevent them from casting. If you watch the video, most of the frogs are out of mana by the time they die anyway. There are some decently sized runways as well if you really want to do it, without snare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kYEDUOoKU4

Someone previously posted that a Krup pather by beetles could Gate back to Guardians. That pather stops at the entrance to Crypt, so you can easily kill it at spawn point if it gates.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never said it wasn't variable. I am giving an example. Let's say that situation happened in my video. Trolls would have still only saved 48 seconds at the end of the fight[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The value of FSI still remains highly situational depending on the fight. For instance if you’re soloing dartain the lost in the hole, he sprints away at 20%. If you miss one root, you’re probably dead. I’d rather have Snare necklace all day while chain rooting until snare really kicks in for lower health.

As I said FSI vs snare necklace is a toss up, really depends on the fight in question. But regen is constant and thus makes trolls superior.