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  #11  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:04 PM
nilbog nilbog is offline
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Originally Posted by whitebandit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Is there a place for an official source of this stuff i can easily look through or is this more of a deep digging type thing, ive never really done much classic researching and do have some time i could probably devote with a point in the right direction.
Well, that's the thing. If there was just a quick place to check, I would have automated that process and this thread wouldn't be a thing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some standout occurrences I noticed from the list are for cultural tradeskills, as those combines were not available until well into Kunark.

The order in which I posted the list was (item id) descending. This is not always a true indication of non-classic, but sometimes it is. I expect pro-tradeskillers and researchers can easily spot check.

Appreciate the spreadsheet effort!
  #12  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:24 PM
whitebandit whitebandit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Well, that's the thing. If there was just a quick place to check, I would have automated that process and this thread wouldn't be a thing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some standout occurrences I noticed from the list are for cultural tradeskills, as those combines were not available until well into Kunark.

The order in which I posted the list was (item id) descending. This is not always a true indication of non-classic, but sometimes it is. I expect pro-tradeskillers and researchers can easily spot check.

Appreciate the spreadsheet effort!
In light of this, ive reversed my Alphabetizing of this list, my bad! It is now back to the original order
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silence, 'hardcore scum'
  #13  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:39 PM
soronil soronil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitebandit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Is there a place for an official source of this stuff i can easily look through or is this more of a deep digging type thing, ive never really done much classic researching and do have some time i could probably devote with a point in the right direction.
nilbogs "How do I research" thread with a how to on using the wayback machine
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=5570

patch notes for the entire timeline:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Patch_notes
  #14  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:41 PM
whitebandit whitebandit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soronil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
nilbogs "How do I research" thread with a how to on using the wayback machine
https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=5570

patch notes for the entire timeline:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Patch_notes
Thanks friend, Ill do some digging [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
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  #15  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:46 PM
soronil soronil is offline
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Originally Posted by whitebandit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Thank you! sorry, i thought i opened it up, should be Editable now!
Cant add rows, was going to add column headers to kind of define a format... I made a second tab to give you an idea... Can you please make some columns so it's not a big mess for him?

Patch (Month, Year)
Link (proof if available)
Usage (description of what item is used for / why it should be at a certain point)
  #16  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:48 PM
whitebandit whitebandit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soronil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Cant add rows, was going to add column headers to kind of define a format... I made a second tab to give you an idea... Can you please make some columns so it's not a big mess for him?

Patch (Month, Year)
Link (proof if available)
Usage (description of what item is used for / why it should be at a certain point)
I had locked down the item name column (maybe that was preventing rows being created) its no longer locked, Everyone should have full permission to modify to their hearts content.
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  #17  
Old 10-22-2019, 03:02 PM
nilbog nilbog is offline
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I have started implementing these changes. (highlighted completed rows in green)
  #18  
Old 10-24-2019, 12:32 AM
nilbog nilbog is offline
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I implemented several changes from the spreadsheet. (in green highlights)

Regarding spells: I have changed none (yet) that occur within the first 2 months of release (i.e. April/May). I would like to look over these more tomorrow, and possibly have some more commentary. Magicians without pet summons? Lots of bard songs will be missing? Hm.

Plate Armor Molds - I see comments made on the spreadsheet these are for Fine Plate Armor. When was it added?

Mana Batteries - I see comments made for Apr2001 (Gnome Cultural), but what about recharging of airplane items/when should that occur if not with airplane? These are only sold in sky anyways, so not changing at this time.

Thanks to all researchers who have worked on this! I encourage others to look at the spreadsheet.
  #19  
Old 10-24-2019, 02:02 AM
Dolalin Dolalin is offline
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On the issue of magicians, I'd say the following:

1) The pets are still in the game, they are just researchable instead of vendor sold. This puts them in the same shoes as necros.

2) Mages are historically the most viable class on any TLP server launch because they don't need to rely on research. This fix balances them, honestly, and puts the brakes on all-mage powergamer groups for a month or two.

3) Mage pets currently have the ability to use weapons, dual wield, and cast spells at launch, especially Root, which is unclassic. These changes weren't patched in until May 1999, September 1999 and January 2000, evidence in these threads:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=335869

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=335906

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=335907

So magicians already have a lot of unclassic stuff going for them on Green at the moment. I think they'll be okay if slowed down by having to do research.


On the issue of Clarity not being patched in till May:

1) Enchanter charm is very powerful but only sustainable with mana regen. This forces enchanters to group with bards (who still have Clarity song)

2) Casters in general are high powered at a server launch and this will balance them with melee.

3) Enchanters are still needed for CC, they are not going away.


On bard songs:

Well, this is how bards were. Every few months they had new songs to look forward to. They have Clarity song and will still be a very necessary and wanted grouping class, especially if Clarity is kept gated at May 1999. It's all connected.
  #20  
Old 10-24-2019, 03:43 AM
zodium zodium is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
On the issue of magicians, I'd say the following:

1) The pets are still in the game, they are just researchable instead of vendor sold. This puts them in the same shoes as necros.

2) Mages are historically the most viable class on any TLP server launch because they don't need to rely on research. This fix balances them, honestly, and puts the brakes on all-mage powergamer groups for a month or two.

3) Mage pets currently have the ability to use weapons, dual wield, and cast spells at launch, especially Root, which is unclassic. These changes weren't patched in until May 1999, September 1999 and January 2000, evidence in these threads:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=335869

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=335906

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=335907

So magicians already have a lot of unclassic stuff going for them on Green at the moment. I think they'll be okay if slowed down by having to do research.


On the issue of Clarity not being patched in till May:

1) Enchanter charm is very powerful but only sustainable with mana regen. This forces enchanters to group with bards (who still have Clarity song)

2) Casters in general are high powered at a server launch and this will balance them with melee.

3) Enchanters are still needed for CC, they are not going away.


On bard songs:

Well, this is how bards were. Every few months they had new songs to look forward to. They have Clarity song and will still be a very necessary and wanted grouping class, especially if Clarity is kept gated at May 1999. It's all connected.
it's incredibly interesting to see how these subtle classic game dynamics were taken apart piece by piece with small, gradual changes. probably the devs themselves never realized the implications for eq's delicately balanced class dynamics here. amazing.

jesus, the Vision was real and actually did pervasively shape early gameplay in a complex tapestry, and we were all fools for killing it with a thousand acerbic cuts.
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