Where did WoW go right?

[choklo]

Some things that stuck out about early EQ that were fixed in WoW:
1) Embedded time sinks. The long cast times, mana regen, health regen etc.
2) Corpse runs. Most didn't want to spend hours doing this with no reward or fun.
3)Huge wait times setting up raids or groups- (i.e. "need cleric and CC for king group.")
4) Huge wait times for rare spawns and rare drops
5) PvP as an after thought.
6) Having to put your life on hold to be a "real" player
7) Unbalanced classes. I was an ogre sk and regretted it for several years.
It's clear that WoW turned EQ's weak points into strong points for WoW. EQ is fairly Masochistic.

[Danth]

I haven't read the entire thread. I quit Everquest well before Warcraft launched. As such I don't consider these games direct competitors. They occupied different eras of my own gaming history.

Warcraft maintained its dominance largely due to two factors. First, it achieved a sort of self-sustaining critical mass of players. It drew in a lot of folks who aren't really gamers at all and who don't really give other games any consideration. Second, even more importantly, Warcraft has been blessed with consistently weak competition. Warcraft exists as a tolerably well-made game in a genre full of rubbish.

For my part, I enjoyed Warcraft during 2004 and in to 2005, before Blizzard ruined the level 60 instances by making them too easy, then again during the first expansion. I haven't enjoyed it since then and haven't subscribed since early 2009.

Project1999 is my lifeboat. Without this emulatorI'd be out of the MMOG hobby entirely.

Danth

[Dagner]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Helen Keller could type up a better post than that.

Requiring a huge time investment like EQ isn't really a challenge in a game sense. Some pulls in EQ can be a "challenge" (not really), but its only a challenge if something like a mes fails, or someone isn't paying attention. There are plenty of fights in WoW that require more movement and teamwork than EQ ever did even now on live. You could honestly argue combat/fights in EQ are by far easier than WoW, WoW is just more accessible, and based on players/subscribers over the years, they got it right. There's nothing wrong with attracting all types of people to a game, the more the merrier. Some people will always be annoying and/or suck, but that is gaming in general. The real problem is, no other gaming companies seem to be able to expand on WoW like they did on EQ and other past MMOs.

Please post your 8 year old nephews character name on here for us too, thanks.

Also lets point out the title again : "Where did WoW go right"
Not: "Lets all be angry mouth breathing nerds who hate on popular things"

To piggyback off this post I will just say that the encounters in WOW, lets take the lich king fight for example, are/were much more difficult than anything EQ has to offer. The coordination for 10/25 people and timing don't compare here. Get a decent tank, some CH clerics and make sure everyone is appropriately geared for their level in EQ and it essentially just becomes about #'s after that.

The game wasn't any less difficult in my opinion, it just appeared to be less difficult. If you make a bad pull or attack the wrong mob in EQ, you die and lose an hour of experience (that requires a group to get) and time invested in running back/finding a group. WoW essentially required the same thing, but took out the time sink with exp loss/travel/etc. But sophistication of game play? Come on, it's not even close... Typical encounters become cookie-cutter once you learn your class for both games, except with WoW you have more abilities/options. Basically the bottom line is EQ's consequence for bad play was time; WoW's consequence for bad play was not being recognized as a good player.

The biggest thing that kept me playing in vanilla was pvp. It was really the first mmrpg I played where I felt like whatever class I played, I had a legitimate chance 1v1 against any other class. It was remarkably balanced; the complete opposite of EQ. I mean even within classes in EQ, the races were imbalanced (iksar monks at botb, anyone? ogre/troll warriors? etc)

I haven't played WoW since middle of WOTLK because of all the automated grouping and cross-server battlegrounds. Having factions and knowing the good players on the opposite side of your faction and competing was one of the better aspects of the game. At some point, both games took a turn towards maintaining casual players and milking the cash for as long as possible.

[choklo]

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful responses. This and the "Where did EQ Live Go Wrong" thread are two of the most interesting topics on this forum. It really gets to the heart of why we spend so many hours on this hobby. It would probably be very useful to many gaming companies like SOE, Arenanet, Blizzard, etc., but most of all, it's a look in the mirror for us MMO guys and gals.

cheers

Nadah, retired 60 HIE enchanter p1999

[tops419]

I agree with the poster above. WoW was MUCH more complex (as far as raiding goes) than EQ.
I think the reason so many people play P1999, is you get a chance to be something you could have never been in the same era. The top 5 or 10% in EQ used to have everything: the COF's, Epics, God lewt, etc.
Now 90% have it and it's actually kinda wierd to see a character sporting level appropriate gear( a caster with a flowing black robe, a melee with banded, etc)

I think once most folks reach 60 and get all the phat lewts here, the motivation to keep playing is pretty much gone. I know it is for me.
Somehow, WoW battlegrounds and PVP (especially on the classic servers) are still just as much fun as they ever were.
The problem with current WoW/EQ is that with every new expansion (or update, in the case of WoW) the gear gets more and more outrageous and the carrot on the stick gets further and further away. If I invest all my time, I want to be able to say I have the BIS or near for a few months, at a minimum.
That's probably why Kunark and Velious, collectively, were such good expansions. Velious didn't make all of Kunark obsolete.
The Burning Crusade didn't make all of WoW obsolete (maybe the high end gear), but you still spent ample time in Vanilla zones.

[choklo]

Eventually you have to get off the treadmill. Work, a spouse, kids, friends, other interests, become more important than a video game. After you have spent hundreds of hours getting the best gear and spells, the next expansion starts the cycle over again. Eventually you get tired of the endless cycles of loot inflation(mudflation) and other things become more important.

[Roth]

Originally Posted by choklo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Eventually you have to get off the treadmill. Work, a spouse, kids, friends, other interests, become more important than a video game. After you have spent hundreds of hours getting the best gear and spells, the next expansion starts the cycle over again. Eventually you get tired of the endless cycles of loot inflation(mudflation) and other things become more important.

I feel like I need to address this entire point, in regards to wow. The biggest reason I quit wow is because since halfway through wotlk(the downfall) two things happened: cross server instances, and patch gear resets. By a reset I mean every time a new raid patch comes out they basically have an easier raid instance than the ones you just did on heroic mode that hand out better gear. The point of this is so that everyone keeps moving forward and no one gets left behind.

Basically on wow right now EVERYONE gets gear. This sucks. It sucks because it makes you feel like there's no point playing. I only played for the raids anyhow, but the whole pushing people along so they can do more content feels too artificial once you realize whats going on. Wow was decent till halfway through wotlk. When gear reset every expansion and instances werent cross server, it was fine. Current game is unplayable becasue there's no server community and no meaningful reward for doing anything.

To address initial point, wow was popular simply because it was easy to "keep playing". The gameplay is hard, but the game is set up so that it's impossible to quit to frustration. I subbed to wow 6 years, played eq on and off for much short months. Still loved eq more though. Wow was less addicting(and less special) but set up so that there was no reason to want to quit.

[Litharack_Necro]

Pretty to look at. That's about all imo. Game was total fail (imo.)

[Xanthias]

Another thing that WoW did that helped it's player base, it had a card format of the game.
That brought in more money from people who didn't necessarily play the PC game or it attracted those who enjoyed card based games to the PC version.

[joppykid]

Originally Posted by Kevlar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WoW appeals to 12 year olds and for some reason millions upon millions of orientals. It is way too generic and watered down for my taste.

Lol