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  #21  
Old 12-14-2020, 02:54 PM
xdrcfrx xdrcfrx is offline
Sarnak


Join Date: Nov 2017
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scout is one of the last things on the server where people don't bother paying attention to guild tags, there's no one breathing down your neck, and everyone just helps because it's ultimately better for everyone.

scout is never going to be like it was on classic, because classic didn't spend 5+ years in velious. was anybody bothering to help Leuz with his task, once luclin and PoP were in the mix? I'd suspect not.

There's no reason to make scout an objectively worse experience seeking to recreate a thing which cannot be recreated. The barrier for entry is stupid low. just go get the tools, and roll. sooner or later you'll be the winner.
  #22  
Old 12-14-2020, 02:58 PM
hotkarlmarxbros hotkarlmarxbros is offline
Kobold


Join Date: Apr 2019
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So that is a great example of one less person everyone would have to roll against with a reasonable set of rules. Anybody else want to chime in to help me prove my point?
  #23  
Old 12-14-2020, 03:53 PM
xdrcfrx xdrcfrx is offline
Sarnak


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your suggestion(s) would just turn scout into a game of "how many guildies can I get to show up and roll with me?" and would at the same encourage the same asinine rule lawyering that makes a lot of the rest of p99 a less than rewarding experience. Counting seconds until scout turnin goes FFA, arguing about who turned in too early, or many other things we could start to slice and examine in minute detail. I understand that you want to be able to lock down scout with your guild and sell the loot rights or whatever.

There's no reason to treat scout any differently than it currently operates. Working perfectly fine, and has been for a long while. One less person to roll against? I'm already at scout like 2-3 times a week at the most, as convenience allows. The rules are reasonable as is.
  #24  
Old 12-14-2020, 04:20 PM
hotkarlmarxbros hotkarlmarxbros is offline
Kobold


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You're right, I left out the original rules that I agree with. Would still have to be winning roll loots and turns in, no LR sales. Scout can be done with less than a full group, and Angry and Ring 8 can be duoed. Angry already has this timed aspect, and as we've seen from other rnf threads, is rarely enforced. Likely only if the staff feels one way about a party, then they are free to punish or 'let them off with a warning' depending on who it is and how they are feeling that day.

As for the "fine as is" argument, I would argue that it is very Not Fine As Is.

Ring 8 roll seems to have been cleaned up a bit as it became more popular and had its wiki entry updated, so rather than a small group of people arguing there are only a few people who are out of line and easily told to fall in line by the majority. But you still have to wait a minimum of 30 minutes after winning a roll, and that's only right after a quake. As the timer drifts you are stuck waiting increasing amounts of time and the opportunity for shenanigans only increases (people selling LR, looting on non-winning characters, others coming up demanding a roll, etc). Roll on pop would eliminate all of that, and if things weren't above board it would be easily documented and sent to GMs (or more likely here for a thorough roasting first).

Scout and Angry have a problem with everyone casually parking out and rolling for end-game loot for zero effort or coordination expended. Bring your level 38 ranger, it's totally fine. People have been stuck there for months trying to win, but are forced to wait in the handout line with everyone else because of some arbitrary ruling they never agreed to. FWIW I don't go to scout any more, I've already won talismans/bracers for any character I care about. But in my opinion forcing people who could handle the content to wait behind anyone and everyone who just shows up with dice in their hand is pretty bullshit.
  #25  
Old 12-14-2020, 04:30 PM
xdrcfrx xdrcfrx is offline
Sarnak


Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 228
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for what it's worth, I actually mostly agree with you about ring roll. I spent a very long time there trying to win it (like, 80+ attempts before I finally won), and haven't bothered to try on any other toons because of how terrible the experience was. if it was roll on spawn, or if the time for the roll could be moved once the delay got overly long, that would probably help.

I think scout could be made better simply by adding to the rules "level X is required." Could debate about the appropriate level to allow, but this would solve the problem of low level toons who can't contribute to the encounter adding to the number of people rolling. Already you'll get some people who won't bother helping someone that cons green, and this doesn't appear to be held against them in the same way not helping the winner usually is.

Other than a level req. though, i feel like changing scout would make it even worse.
  #26  
Old 12-14-2020, 04:51 PM
Ripqozko Ripqozko is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2018
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I hope you get scout one day smashh
  #27  
Old 12-15-2020, 06:52 AM
LazyHydras LazyHydras is offline
Sarnak


Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 348
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The thing about it is this — mathematically, at this juncture, it's possible to never win a scout roll in the lifespan of Blue server because there will always be some random alt parked there. . . the number of people rarely diminishes (except, perhaps, right now because Kunark recently came out on Green). While this is infinitely better than just losing it to someone using an auto clicker for the sake of denying others the ability to attempt the encounter, this also means that anyone can do the encounter regardless of preparedness or even the ability to realistically take it on. In other words, the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction.
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Nephinine - 60 Iksar Necromancer

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Remember. . . Iksar is the master race.
  #28  
Old 12-15-2020, 07:19 AM
Fammaden Fammaden is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,463
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I've won six times, therefore its fine.

EDIT: Scout, not ring 8.
Last edited by Fammaden; 12-15-2020 at 07:22 AM..
  #29  
Old 12-15-2020, 08:33 AM
Bondrake Bondrake is offline
Sarnak


Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotkarlmarxbros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
You're right, I left out the original rules that I agree with. Would still have to be winning roll loots and turns in, no LR sales. Scout can be done with less than a full group, and Angry and Ring 8 can be duoed. Angry already has this timed aspect, and as we've seen from other rnf threads, is rarely enforced. Likely only if the staff feels one way about a party, then they are free to punish or 'let them off with a warning' depending on who it is and how they are feeling that day.

As for the "fine as is" argument, I would argue that it is very Not Fine As Is.

Ring 8 roll seems to have been cleaned up a bit as it became more popular and had its wiki entry updated, so rather than a small group of people arguing there are only a few people who are out of line and easily told to fall in line by the majority. But you still have to wait a minimum of 30 minutes after winning a roll, and that's only right after a quake. As the timer drifts you are stuck waiting increasing amounts of time and the opportunity for shenanigans only increases (people selling LR, looting on non-winning characters, others coming up demanding a roll, etc). Roll on pop would eliminate all of that, and if things weren't above board it would be easily documented and sent to GMs (or more likely here for a thorough roasting first).

Scout and Angry have a problem with everyone casually parking out and rolling for end-game loot for zero effort or coordination expended. Bring your level 38 ranger, it's totally fine. People have been stuck there for months trying to win, but are forced to wait in the handout line with everyone else because of some arbitrary ruling they never agreed to. FWIW I don't go to scout any more, I've already won talismans/bracers for any character I care about. But in my opinion forcing people who could handle the content to wait behind anyone and everyone who just shows up with dice in their hand is pretty bullshit.
You're a fcking weirdo. It's a video game, who cares this much. Get a life and go outside.
  #30  
Old 12-15-2020, 08:40 AM
LazyHydras LazyHydras is offline
Sarnak


Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotkarlmarxbros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Scout and Angry have a problem with everyone casually parking out and rolling for end-game loot for zero effort or coordination expended. Bring your level 38 ranger, it's totally fine. People have been stuck there for months trying to win, but are forced to wait in the handout line with everyone else because of some arbitrary ruling they never agreed to. FWIW I don't go to scout any more, I've already won talismans/bracers for any character I care about. But in my opinion forcing people who could handle the content to wait behind anyone and everyone who just shows up with dice in their hand is pretty bullshit.

This is basically my point. I am bound by a ruling that I don't agree with to help someone who just parks a toon there that they don't use just because it's free end-game loot. Most of the people who attend the roll probably have 2 / 4 / 6 bracers and a couple talismans anyway, so their 6th alt who needs a talisman or something is fair game to sit there and get more free pixels.

I don't attend scout regularly because I actually use my character and have other things to do to where I can't login every 10 hours or park my toon there in anticipation of rolling for free pixels. I am more than capable of gathering a group to do it, but the idea of sitting in line behind a random lvl50 alt or even a lvl60 alt of someone who has probably won scout roll numerous times is rather frustrating. I haven't won a roll yet and there's not a good likelihood that i will win a roll any time soon. Hell, I may even have a Dozekar bracer before I get the stupid BoB, lol.
__________________
Characters:

Nephinine - 60 Iksar Necromancer

Krystaps - 60 Iksar Warrior


Remember. . . Iksar is the master race.
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