[Elf Laywer Quest] FoW vs Seal Team

[Imposter]

It is kind of a open / shut case.

FW goes for a triplet.
ST tries to leap frog and fails miserbly and trains 2 of the trips on FW.
FW asks for concede and leave the area which is standard.
ST refused, but gave "attempt".
after recovery, FW engages and gets trained blatantly by ST rogue.
FW asks for concede and leave area which is standard.
ST refused and killed one of the twins instead.

FW is delayed for hours on a mob we killed on first try.

ST is able to kill multiple mobs during this time because they trained their competition.

FW asks for additional concessions.
ST says fuck off.

FW petitions trains / harassment.
ST defends with no defense, but in their defense document decide to point fingers at some random short clips that try to paint a picture of trains that happened somewhere with no context that have nothing to do with raids.

[Delekhan]

Can we move this to RNF please because it's become stupid?

[Kirdan]

super duper important context: noble as Domo's intentions may be, this thread is already full of little more than misconceptions, posturing, outright lies, etc. it belongs in RnF.

[beaon]

Certainly no bias at all in the recounting of events here. The "context" as is shared. Seal team absolutely nefariously intended to cause repeat harm to their opposition. There simply is no other explanation! Just impossible to think of any other possible explanation. It just isn't possible for it to be any other way! The full context, recounting of events, not leaving anything out shows it! Seal team must dominate its opposition into the ground, repeatedly. Sarcasm aside...

People want "competition" and "Fairness" but struggle with these concepts given the mechanics the game provides. If someone botches a pull in absence of competition its just a botched pull. No one cares. If that same person botches their pull over a competing and unfortunately positioned raid force all of the sudden its a nefarious, pointed, tactical train, a personal attack on your person that shall not go unpunished and I'll see you in elf court and in the RnF trashcan!

Several hours after the event, maybe a full day later, FoW asked ST to concede the entire zone of ToV for 7 days. We then all sit around scratching our head wondering why everyone is so "toxic".

Thanks for the kind words on AOW. It was an amazing moment.

[Tunabros]

popcorn time!

[Convict]

Originally Posted by beaon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Certainly no bias at all in the recounting of events here. The "context" as is shared. Seal team absolutely nefariously intended to cause repeat harm to their opposition. There simply is no other explanation! Just impossible to think of any other possible explanation. It just isn't possible for it to be any other way! The full context, recounting of events, not leaving anything out shows it! Seal team must dominate its opposition into the ground, repeatedly. Sarcasm aside...

I am not in either guild, but obviously your sarcastic post is anticipated when taken into account your POV and perception of events given you are in said guild in question. Raiding on blue was absolutely 100% no different as this exact same stuff happened there.

The problem with your logic here is that "intention" never mattered. All that mattered was the result of the action committed. It sounds like the result was that FoW got completely fucked over by ST regardless if ST "intended" to cause such harm or not, and hopefully the punishment will reflect that.

Its funny to me though that the top guild always behaves the same, regardless of who is in that position. When they fuck up and accidently train a competing guild somehow they always find a way to play victim and find some convoluted way to spin the blame on the actual victim. But when the opposite happens, and the top guild is trained or literally anything happens, even when it doesn't affect the outcome and the top guild still ends up with the kill, they throw the whole fucking lawyerquest book at their competition's face.

"Intention" should not be factored into a GM decision, because it cannot be proven, and that's why ST will try to use it the best they can to spin spin spin, baby! "We didn't intend to train them! It was one single afk rogue who screwed up, it would be stupid to punish us for that!"... "Kingdom intended to wipe us when that one single enchanter screwed up and tried to tash VS, and even though it didn't, and we still got the kill and the loot, they should be punished anyways".

You should be able to see where this becomes a problem. Because if not, you are already drunk off the cool aid.

[LuffyP99]

The way ST poached members from all competing guilds over the years to make a mega-zerg guild with 3x the active raiding population as other guilds, and can still completely screw over another guild and walk away without so much as a slap on the wrist is beyond me. To even throw the around the terminology fair competition after the repeated and consistent, toxic and arrogant persona that defines them, is laughable. In the middle of the night, they field 90 members and insta-engage all targets. They have 100's of mouths to feed, but what their members don't realize is the way their gearing system works benefits the top 40% RA members and leave the lower members holding the bag. But at least the lower members on the totem pole will eventually get their primal weapons and then they can leave the toxic leadership because they're no longer obligated to stay. A solution would be bag limits, but god forbid ST didn't take 90% of the content on non-quake weeks. Train another guild repeatedly and asking for a concession? Get real, the gm's are not stepping in, and the problem is only going to get worse as their weekly gearing will ramp up and they can clear/monopolize all content faster. Yeah, this is a lot like the classic we all remember. Not, it's a disgrace.

[sajbert]

Originally Posted by LuffyP99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The way ST poached members from all competing guilds over the years to make a mega-zerg guild with 3x the active raiding population as other guilds, and can still completely screw over another guild and walk away without so much as a slap on the wrist is beyond me. To even throw the around the terminology fair competition after the repeated and consistent, toxic and arrogant persona that defines them, is laughable. In the middle of the night, they field 90 members and insta-engage all targets. They have 100's of mouths to feed, but what their members don't realize is the way their gearing system works benefits the top 40% RA members and leave the lower members holding the bag. But at least the lower members on the totem pole will eventually get their primal weapons and then they can leave the toxic leadership because they're no longer obligated to stay. A solution would be bag limits, but god forbid ST didn't take 90% of the content on non-quake weeks. Train another guild repeatedly and asking for a concession? Get real, the gm's are not stepping in, and the problem is only going to get worse as their weekly gearing will ramp up and they can clear/monopolize all content faster. Yeah, this is a lot like the classic we all remember. Not, it's a disgrace.

Sure, the chunk of ST members doesn't get anything but scraps as the turbo-addicts monopolize the loot. But, without ST I don't see that being changed. It's not as if ST is hiding anything either, their loot system is documented for all members to see, granted its needless complexity may for some players obscure how screwed they are.

Everyone's free to join another guild but I doubt their chances of getting pixels would be any better. Perhaps I'm wrong, even if we don't consider VP and ToV loot.

Raiding in this game isn't good. It doesn't lend to fun or a healthy lifestyle. Can't blame ST for that.

As for whatever happened now with FoW, don't know, don't care and there can be sanctions. It HAS happened before.

[drackgon]

/popcorn
<--not in either of these guilds, but doubt anything will happen to any parties. Bc "were all victims here".
I love how peeps want this moved to RNF.

Btw OP is a good guy one of the very few in ST I actually /respect.

[Baler]

Originally Posted by Domo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am a member of Seal Team, and I love my Yankee Boomer friends

Hi, i'm just saving this quote for later. please don't hide this thread. Thanks! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]