First to Engage: Exploiting the mechanic?

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Flurry, rampage, 10x to 20x more HP, ya almost exactly...

You got lost in the sarcasm. Its okay

[dirty joe]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh it's Ascention, the guy we geared out, then you disappeared for school, then come back and split for TMO.

Let's go ahead and clarify that ragefire. We turned in the pearl first, then we trained out the giants to get a force into the lair and we were of course trained during our engage. Then you and Nizzler decided to just run an engage on human form claiming that we somehow lost our right with 5 minutes left on the clock, then we rightfully engage the dragon after you spawned it only to BLATANTLY trained by the two giants at the door courtesy of you.

Then afterwords during your engage I could have blatantly trained your attempt but I'm not an asshole. To top it all off

If you wipe to human form and he resets, isn't that mob up for grabs regardless of how much of the 20 minutes is left?

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh it's Ascention, the guy we geared out, then you disappeared for school, then come back and split for TMO.

Let's go ahead and clarify that ragefire. We turned in the pearl first, then we trained out the giants to get a force into the lair and we were of course trained during our engage. Then you and Nizzler decided to just run an engage on human form claiming that we somehow lost our right with 5 minutes left on the clock, then we rightfully engage the dragon after you spawned it only to BLATANTLY trained by the two giants at the door courtesy of you.

Then afterwords during your engage I could have blatantly trained your attempt but I'm not an asshole. To top it all off

[Wed Oct 30 16:38:28 2013] You say out of character, 'ascention, that is not yer mob to engage'
[Wed Oct 30 16:38:49 2013] You told ascention, 'wut are u doing old friend'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:00 2013] Ascention tells you, 'whose perl got handed in?'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:04 2013] You told Ascention, 'contemptor'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:20 2013] You told Ascention, 'we had a 20 min timer going, its not up'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:29 2013] Ascention tells you, 'oh'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:37 2013] You told Ascention, 'raid interference, not to mention being the worst '
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:41 2013] You told Ascention, 'jesus man'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:47 2013] You told Ascention, 'dont let tmo corrupt u'
[Wed Oct 30 16:40:05 2013] You told Ascention, 'turn attack off'
[Wed Oct 30 16:40:29 2013] You say out of character, 'u trained hte lair with FGs'
[Wed Oct 30 16:47:49 2013] You told Ascention, 'well for what its worth, you have sunk to the lowest of the low '
[Wed Oct 30 16:50:36 2013] Ascention tells you, 'just doing what im told'
[Wed Oct 30 16:50:48 2013] Ascention tells you, 'we were there first and trained by a bda monk for the record'
[Wed Oct 30 17:38:56 2013] Grundlegore tells you, 'Im not gonna lie I do feel a little bit bad for the way things went down'
[Wed Oct 30 17:39:10 2013] You told Grundlegore, 'dont ever talk to me again after that'
[Wed Oct 30 17:39:52 2013] Grundlegore tells you, 'aight man, but from my experience shit went down the same way when I was in bda, I just feel bad now cause it was you guys'

Don't fucking play the victim, you didn't even know what happened. Have fun being a mindless soldier in TMO.

So if BDA gears you in hate gear... they own your soul? Noted.

you are such a crybaby chest

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2 giants wipe a raid? you all need a visit from dr. turgur

Not to mention Dr. Paralyzing Earth. But I'm willing to withhold judgment until I see the fraps. Which we really need to see; Elements called Chest out pretty hard but Chest has volleyed the ball back into his court.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The issue with everything is that people cannot act like civilized adults. Let's look at BDA's Vox kill yesterday as a simple example.

We (BDA) were first on the scene and began the civilized process of clearing towards Vox. TMO shows up, leapfrogs our raid force, trains everything before Vox + plus her lair out and onto our force and immediately engages Vox. We were forced to camp out our raid force and TMO wiped to adds or something. We recovered from our partial wipe and beat the dragon. I don't really care if TMO's train out strat was "accidentally" dropped on our force or as they would obviously claim we shouldn't have been in their way.

So how do you stop that behavior with rule implementation? We managed to persevere through this round of bullshit, but for every one minor raid kill we get there's another 10 incidents where this exact same type of thing happens. We need rules to address that type of behavior, the attitude that as long as the mob is alive a guild can/will do anything possible to score the kill. The punishments are not severe enough to deter the behavior. Even if we caught the accidental train red handed with some 1080p fraps and two forms of ID that one alt might get suspended for a week, it doesn't stop the machine.

We need some type of play nice policy and we need it enforced. The current mindset is "do whatever it takes" and I've even told by staff numerous times that if we don't like what TMO does to us then we should do it right back to them. Some of us want to maintain some sense of decency and decorum. We shouldn't have to lie/cheat/steal/train and pretend it's tantamount to competition. Knowing how to dodge enemy trains (in places where it's actually illegal no less) shouldn't be a condition of raiding on this server.

I don't want to poopsock, I don't even want a rotation at this point (although I see nothing wrong with it) I only want to be able to engage a target without getting trained EVERY single time. This is possible, but TMO would actually have to act like adults. Every other guild has said at one point or another that they would agree to some simple rules of engagement but TMO refuses. 10% of the server population is dictating how raiding is to be done by everyone else. We've seen Divinity move on Dojo and given them some space to make an engage, or even when it was other guilds banding together to take a shot at Naggy we didn't immediately go to leapfrog and train giants out and OOPS sorry we didn't mean to train your raid accidentally because we desperately needed FTE.

There's nothing wrong with treating others like humans and trying to show some fucking decency.

tl? dr?

In many ways, eq is ffa. But leapfrogging is never cool. That should actually be a rule, I think. It is not ambiguous. Not all encounters can be leapfrogged, but those that can, I would like to see someone defend it.

Whether it can be policed is another matter. One guild's complain is another guild's "we both got there at the same time."

But you know it when it happens. I always hated basterds who thought stuff like that was good gameplay. It's not. It's weak.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Oakengroves [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Halls of Testing armor, the freeing up of Kunark boss mobs/epic quests, and the availability of non-boss Velious drops (Willsapper is a good example) really equaled the playing field in EQlive on my old server. Guilds were able to do more with this gear because it was much more accessible, easier to obtain, and less contested.

It will be interesting to observe how things play out.

Good question. I played eq2, which at least had a thriving playerbase for several years, and for the first few years, a lot of contested content. You could do worse. The game was fair enough. And, as I say, it had a playerbase. Always nice to see a couple dozen servers running.

Was in two guilds first 5 years, with each of them, we killed contested spawns even if no one needed the items. At the time, it was just how we rolled. Mob spawns, phone rings, kill.

If another guild was there before us, we always gave them a free and stress-free one try. The fact they could not execute was not our problem.

And we were not zerg guilds. In both my eq2 guilds, our roster was 30ish. It just is not rocket science to lockdown a server, is the point. (too much time on my hands, apparently, during the mid 2000's)

And so, your question is an interesting one.

Not sure what the culture is among the top end guilds here. Not sure I care. But, it is a huge assumption that lots of people make, that moar content = less lockdown.

Not true. Not necessarily.

[Elements]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh it's Ascention, the guy we geared out, then you disappeared for school, then come back and split for TMO.

Let's go ahead and clarify that ragefire. We turned in the pearl first, then we trained out the giants to get a force into the lair and we were of course trained during our engage. Then you and Nizzler decided to just run an engage on human form claiming that we somehow lost our right with 5 minutes left on the clock, then we rightfully engage the dragon after you spawned it only to BLATANTLY trained by the two giants at the door courtesy of you.

Then afterwords during your engage I could have blatantly trained your attempt but I'm not an asshole. To top it all off

[Wed Oct 30 16:38:28 2013] You say out of character, 'ascention, that is not yer mob to engage'
[Wed Oct 30 16:38:49 2013] You told ascention, 'wut are u doing old friend'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:00 2013] Ascention tells you, 'whose perl got handed in?'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:04 2013] You told Ascention, 'contemptor'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:20 2013] You told Ascention, 'we had a 20 min timer going, its not up'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:29 2013] Ascention tells you, 'oh'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:37 2013] You told Ascention, 'raid interference, not to mention being the worst '
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:41 2013] You told Ascention, 'jesus man'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:47 2013] You told Ascention, 'dont let tmo corrupt u'
[Wed Oct 30 16:40:05 2013] You told Ascention, 'turn attack off'
[Wed Oct 30 16:40:29 2013] You say out of character, 'u trained hte lair with FGs'
[Wed Oct 30 16:47:49 2013] You told Ascention, 'well for what its worth, you have sunk to the lowest of the low '
[Wed Oct 30 16:50:36 2013] Ascention tells you, 'just doing what im told'
[Wed Oct 30 16:50:48 2013] Ascention tells you, 'we were there first and trained by a bda monk for the record'
[Wed Oct 30 17:38:56 2013] Grundlegore tells you, 'Im not gonna lie I do feel a little bit bad for the way things went down'
[Wed Oct 30 17:39:10 2013] You told Grundlegore, 'dont ever talk to me again after that'
[Wed Oct 30 17:39:52 2013] Grundlegore tells you, 'aight man, but from my experience shit went down the same way when I was in bda, I just feel bad now cause it was you guys'

Don't fucking play the victim, you didn't even know what happened. Have fun being a mindless soldier in TMO.

All I see above is a plea for pixels after some ass-hat behavior. Why would someone you train twice and leapfrog want to give up an engage on a mob you wiped to? You can also see how I am civil to you throughout your logs... Had it been just me, I probably would have just walked away but since I was with others I left the call up to them and I didn't really care at that point if we were taking a FFA mob that someone in your party had spawned.

If I'm just a mindless soldier why are you so broke up about me leaving?

[Splorf22]

There are simply too many high level toons. Kunark will be out for three years soon. The 'casual' players have a max toon and a 50+ alt. The 'hardcore' players have 2-3 max toons. And there are people with legit armies like Jeremy and Treats. If Velious had come out 8 months after Kunark, when a much smaller fraction of the server was maxed it might solve some problems. As is, it'll make stuff better but it's not the answer.

What I don't understand is why the staff is so hellbent on competition. Suppose each guild got 2-4 tokens per week to spawn whatever bosses they wanted. Voila, casual guilds can do their thing without getting cockblocked, and the elite raiders can go nuts sitting in VS's pit for 96 hours.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Motec [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, it wont.

Not even close, and you're fucking stupid if you legitimately think that. I sincerely hope you are trolling. Please say you are, or step down from being a guide please.

Do you have any comprehension of this server what so ever? Your highest main character is 40 something?

There are dozens of us, who are willing to have a nice and lengthy conversation on the matter...But you seem to have no idea how the raid scene works. Its like amelinda all over but without the RMT flowing in to your pockets.

Velious fixes NOTHING.

VP will be on lock down 24/7
Trak, VS, all of Plane of fear including golems now on lockdown
All of hate on lockdown
All of Wtov locked down
All ST warders locked down
Eashen locked down.
Vindi, Statue, KT, and OOIV guy locked down.


Thats enough content for ONE GUILD. JUST ONE

How does velious fix ANYTHING, when it is all easily trackable, and there is enough time in 3 nights to do all of those targets. What to do with the remaining 4 nights in the week.

As ST and NtoV become viable (3 months for cleric mana and warrior HP) then 1 guild and maybe 3-4 targets for another.

It solves nothing, especially considering how population will increase as well.

Variance, is destroying this server.
Variance, is holding all loot back from everyone not in the top 2 guilds
Variance, is forcing the top guild players to track targets for TEN DAYS STRAIGHT, multiple targets, with multiple raid forces logged out at them.
Variance, is destroying any point in simulated repops if ever put in.

Simulated repops would work, for the repop. Then NEVER again until the next simulated repop, because of variance.

Worst f*cking mechanic ever implimented, and must of been done so by someone with no fucking clue how P99 works. Extended variance? Wow.... way to solidify that tattoo on your forehead, whoever it was (rogean, nilbog?).

There are SO MANY PEOPLE who want to spread the drops, spread the raid kills, play less and do more, and spend time on alts, and not destroying the economy etc.

But instead, we have extended variance, and no repops ever. Its mind bottling. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TMO has little to no interest in Kunark with velious out. Variance is largely pointless in Velious however. Harder to poop mobs there. Velious has a natural variance on many mobs too

Variance was added to remove poopsocking, velious does most of that by itself.

[justin2090]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What I don't understand is why the staff is so hellbent on competition. Suppose each guild got 2-4 tokens per week to spawn whatever bosses they wanted. Voila, casual guilds can do their thing without getting cockblocked, and the elite raiders can go nuts sitting in VS's pit for 96 hours.

This is a good idea but there are negatives to everything. What's stopping those guilds from not recruiting? Guild X gets 2-4 tokens a week and shuts down all recruitment. They keep 20 people and gear their mains and every alt. Sure you could say, "GM's shut their tokens's down cause their greedy" but then we're adding more work to our voluntary GM's.

Some of the server wants a competitive raid scene and some just do not have the time in RL to be apart of it. Somewhere in between is where the solution is. Someone just has to find it.