Will Hybrid XP penalties be implemented on Green Server launch?

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why are you assuming theres just a single person? If rules were dps the nerds would bring more dps than you.

...you literally just failed to comprehend anything I wrote.

If they bring in more players to contest, then those players are not somewhere else in the game world. If it only normally takes 1 or 2 people to claim a camp, but they instead need 5 or 6 to out-DPS the typical competition, then those extra 4-5 people are not out farming somewhere else or leveling up an alt. 5-6 min/max DPS characters won't win either if a guild decides to "mini-raid" the camp and push them out.

Like I talked about before, competition would be fluid, as there will always be the option to bring in more numbers to initially fight over a camp, but if people are dedicating that many characters to a single camp in the game, then they are inherently losing time/presence elsewhere. So the numbers each "faction" has at a camp will continually change, and when their numbers dwindle after tiring of fighting or thinking they are safe, then even a casual group would have the opportunity to move in and win the camp for a period of time.

[aaezil]

Yeah casuals still lose in that situation so negative comprehension is still on your side of the table mate

[aaezil]

For instance newer players without enough friends yet to hold even lower lvl camps (remember this is a 10 year old server) or for higher lvl camps everyone thats not in a guild gettng the best dps weps/most amount of warmbodies to fill camps will almost always be on the losing side of dps war.

Not to mention lvl 60s farming noob zones because they “outdps” and ruin everyone of appropriate levels fun.

[Jimjam]

Well you are certainly enthusiastic in the face of adversity.

As such I award you one month of no PNP on green. Obviously CSR is still free to make their own decisions free of PNP guidance as live.

In other news I award Loramin 1 month of rotations on blue.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah casuals still lose in that situation so negative comprehension is still on your side of the table mate

Casuals do not lose in that situation, again you fail to comprehend. A casual group of lets say 1 "tank", 2 melee dps, 2 caster dps, and 1 healer can absolutely push 1 or 2 item farmers from a camp. Remember that healers actually have decent "DPS" in these situations, because they get damage spells.

I never said casuals would win an equal amount of the time in every situation, I said they would have opportunities to compete. Having a chance is better than having none.

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For instance newer players without enough friends yet to hold even lower lvl camps

People don't need to "hold" lower level camps. There's plenty of those to go around, if people get off their asses and don't just try to sit in Oasis or Unrest their whole lives. Even in those places, it's not as if it's going to be 100% min/max DPS groups holding everything down 24/7.

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not to mention lvl 60s farming noob zones because they “outdps” and ruin everyone of appropriate levels fun.

Level 60 is not 1999 era, but whatever number this high level this person is, why are they trying to "farm" noob zones (yes I am aware of gnoll fangs and CB belts for alts)? In any case, that behavior is not allowed, this is something that falls under harassment or total zone disruption.

[Ghilran]

Did you guys know that PNP is not enforced on DBG's official TLP servers? It was very noticeable up until the opening of the Phini server which introduced instances for old world content.

Basically it meant that the raid scene reverted to a big perpetual DPS race, and you found yourself waiting for hours on end with several other guild for a raid target to spawn, trying to KS each other.

I've personally waited in Trak lair for hours with about 200 other characters form a variety of guilds. You can find videos on the tube of VS dying 1/10th of a sec after he spawns.

Interestingly enough, the dungeons/ grouping scene was largely unaffected. People seemed to... play nice with each others.

[Evia]

Even if you're right about claasic 99 eq having no pnp Zura, 95% of the eq player base doesnt remember it that way. I feel like Rogean and Co want to recreate that classic 'feeling' more than be strictly classic (look at all the unclassic changes they made) and the majority of the EQ/p99 player base remembers camp rules and not dps races. P99 already deals with enough toxicity from players....removing pnp policy in favor for dps racing is like throwing gasoline on a dumpster fire.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Less populated zones/areas would certainly get used more though, in the DPS system. People will naturally gravitate away from places where it gets too competitive if it means they can't sit at their little camp and get full exp off those NPCs. Also as I talked about, if it requires more people to contest top item camps, then it means less people are elsewhere in the game world.

Savvy players would no longer be able to solo Verina Tomb with a late audience standing by, prevented from interfering. That would be add an interesting dynamic to some of those spawns. But then, a lot of sniping would occur elsewhere. Finished the ring war, with only Narandi left to kill? Did the final turn-in for SK epic fight? Inc that other, larger guild and all of its members are full mana. This would even apply to iksar broodlings, with the opposing guilds spamming AE spells while Fear golems are low health.

This is *already* what Green99 is going to be for non-Raid play. Pet classes are massively OP in 1999 era and those are the classes who are going to level the fastest and thus be able to claim the big item camps the fastest. With competition available, other people at least have a chance to get in the mix.

I wouldn't even consider playing one of the fringe classes if it came down to DPS instead of claiming and holding a camp, and that's pretty much all I play. With PNP at least, if one of the solo classes wipes, I can step in and attempt to take over where they left off. If/when they come back, they're only chance is to engage me in conversation and offer to duo.

*only* a Peacebringer and FBSS?!? What the hell? That IS a twinked character, and you're talking about Kunark era now. The character you just described is more twinked than anything that's possible in pre-Kunark.

That's an inevitabity though. Classic and trilogy may be two different beasts, but green does not make those distinctions permanent. The progress between each expansion will be fast compared to what p99ers are accustomed to. The Kunark era on here nearly felt like an era, a lot more than back in classic.

But the point has to do with the weapons and spells available, how certain classes would dominate more than they already do. If, for instance, a Ranger was awarded Oakwynd from a GM event, they would garunteed win every DPS race 1v1, not only that but the same could be said for their group and probably their guild. An extreme example, but still.

There's no such thing as "getting put on the AC list" with the P99 system. Whoever owns the camp can hand it off to anyone they want (aka someone in their farming guild, who will then hand it off to another person in their farming guild, etc).

Plenty have maintained a list and it works well enough by announcing it in ooc, which goes back to the point of a self-regulating playerbase and having other, more concrete agreements in place such as scout roll and sky rotations. Without even a rough outline of the PNP, players could port up to buy keys from keymaster, then leapfrog sky raids to snipe efreetis or to kill keeper of souls and sell looting rights. Guilds were creative enough in the past to spam down targets with Ivandyr's Hoops, they'd figure out ways to ruin hours of a guild's progress.

Having said all of this, there are aspects of the PNP that are similar to social niceties and political (over)correctness which can make interactions feel more predictable than ones with quest NPCs.

[stewe]

PnP isnt going anywhere, get over it or move on simple as that.

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by Evia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even if you're right about claasic 99 eq having no pnp Zura, 95% of the eq player base doesnt remember it that way. I feel like Rogean and Co want to recreate that classic 'feeling' more than be strictly classic (look at all the unclassic changes they made) and the majority of the EQ/p99 player base remembers camp rules and not dps races.

End argument. This is all that really needs to be said in response to this dude's impassioned pleas for DPS racing.