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#31
12-05-2021, 12:43 PM
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And Enc as well against singles could just pbaoe. However that would only work against singles. Against multiple mobs enc would have to sit and mem a second stun before color shift fades, fire that off, then attempt to rotate stuns while twisting in either mez’s, roots, or aoe mez Most chanters don’t keep 2 stuns on their bar, but I imagine ones that are used from the danger of multiple high level adds coming at once are also used to having to stun, sit and mem another stun, stand and use the 2nd stun, etc The other casters and priests would get wrecked lol | |||
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#32
12-05-2021, 01:01 PM
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After analyzing in my head a bit more, I think skilled enchanters will actually be one of the better-off classes if this change was implemented. I think if anything you would see people rolling more chanters and a LOT more necro's
Let's consider a scenario where 3 mobs jump a player. Maybe he was fighting one and 2 unexpected adds came: - Enchanter can rotate stuns while twisting mez/root/aoe mez to stabilize the situation - Shaman is fucked, dead. Don't shaman get a FD clicky? Maybe they could use that. But otherwise they dead - Druid is fucked, dead (?? I don't follow druids all that well, correct me if I'm wrong on that) - Wizard lol, dead - Necro can just FD, they'd be fine - Mage, dead, but was probably dead anyway before the change. Maybe his pet can hold them off long enough to gate? - Cleric, I'm assuming dead but I have no idea, never followed clerics much So expect to see shitloads of necros and maybe a bit more chanters, much fewer shaman/druids especially would be my guess | ||
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#33
12-05-2021, 02:08 PM
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Enchanters will be impacted in the same way all casters will be which is that they will be to cast between hits to regain control. This involves syncing mob attacks which involves time that sometimes isn't available. In your example if you're fighting 1 and get 2 adds, at what time did the 2 adds start attacking? You can step back in order to get all the mobs to "pack up" and reach you at the same time so their melee hits are in sync. Clickable items would become much more valuable. Heals, runes, roots, etc all increase in value for any caster and possibly tanks as well if they want to be able to save group casters. This may actually add pressure to clicky camps and make it more difficult to players to maintain charged clickies. If you're grouped and used a click to save your group member and then a raid mob pops, what do you do? Can raiders rely on farming these items if casual Enchanter/Cleric/Etc groupers/soloers also want those items? In general though yes everything gets more difficult. People think Enchanter will be fine but I doubt it. Enchanter has the lowest HP and while casting rune is fine I think they'll fine they will be casting a lot more runes and burning a lot more plat given the lower success rates and that you still get interrupted through rune.I bet most Enchanters over estimate how well they're casting AE stun without channeling and are relying a lot more on channeling through at least a couple hits. Druid in a way gains power in outdoor zones because of their run speed buff. Same for Shaman. Being able to run away and use distance to cast instead of relying on channeling is a big benefit. This will also make JBoots a much more important item for any caster who wants to solo. Indoor soloing will mostly come to an end as it should be. There is actually an Afterlife post on Charm which specifically discusses how Enchanters didn't really charm in dungeons until Velious when the zone size in Velious allowed for running mobs around as if you were outdoors. Shaman potions increase in value. The inability for casters to solo in dungeons should massively slow down the rate of item drops. It won't be like Green where I saw solo level 30 Enchanters farming Kindle in SolA, etc. All of that goes away and it effects everyone. Less items to go around for both casters and melee which also increases difficulty. Items will be obtained by groups not solo farmers and if someone is high enough level to solo farm a dungeon they're probably grouped in a higher level dungeon trying to get items for themselves. Removing the ability to get EXP and items at the same time is huge to increasing difficulty. You're either getting exp, grouped getting exp and a chance at an item, or not getting exp and camping a trivial to get item for your character. I really do think people underestimate how such a change will completely change the meta of P99. It will have less of an effect on Green/Blue today because people have already farmed up all the items, they have 10 alts, power levelers, etc. It's the next server launch when I expect to see something much closer to live classic where players rely on each other more and things become a lot more difficult. Dungeons become challenging group content again not Enchanter solo exp/farm spots. Necro probably would be the new top meta class because they would be pretty much the only class that can get exp and farm items while solo in dungeons. The flip side is Necro doesn't add much to a group like Enchanter does so in a way they're a more balanced top class as their power doesn't translate to carrying groups and raids like we see with the mass Enchanter numbers. | |||
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#34
12-05-2021, 02:12 PM
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Did anyone really care about a lvl 1 enchanter. Jesus cry later at lvl 42-47 resists ffs. hehe
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#35
12-05-2021, 02:29 PM
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Like I just posted, allowing Enchanters to burn through levels easily while farming dungeons means they're racking up items that only groups should be able to obtain. Allowing Enchanters an easy time from level 1 means a lot more Enchanters than would otherwise exist. Enchanter was fucking brutal at low levels. It was almost impossible to solo and grouping meant you died repeatedly due to others mistakes or just bad luck. There is a reason it was the least played class not just because "muh game knowledge." Notice how many people have already said, oh I don't need channeling, I have my animation to solo instead! Guess what? That is another bug that has been proven on P99. Your animation should have about half the HP it currently does and gets smoked by even blue mobs in a few seconds. It's not an equivalent tank to mage/necro pets like it is on P99. Enchanters can't effectively solo until they get Jboots or if they have enough plat to buy SoW potions and then it's only outdoors. Just doesn't happen otherwise. They don't solo in dungeons. Their animation is a joke and doesn't solo blues on its own like happens on P99. They are a group based class that gets shit on repeatedly. This also ties into the Mez bug which is that Mez shouldn't apply mem blur on recast. Mez has to break first and be recast for the mem blur component to reapply. Remember Enchanters having massive aggro in groups and crying about it and dying? This is why that doesn't happen on P99. You just spam mez, oh wait, let me remez before you break, let me remez this mob I just tashed, slowed, etc, blah blah. Didn't happen that way in classic you ate all the aggro accumulating on a mezzed mob. In fact the data I found even showed the mem blur was a random chance to blur anyone on the aggro list. You might even make things worse for yourself. Current Enchanter is basically the root of why P99 isn't classic. No one wants to admit it but if you consider channeling, animation HP, and this mez bug you're 90% of the way there. Enchanter doesn't just carry themselves either. They farm items, they carry groups, and they trivialize raid content with charms. Most of that shouldn't be possible and the few things that are like charmed planar mobs should only involve a tiny number of Enchanters who had the balls to face a terrifying leveling experience to get there. Not casual newbs just easily being master soloers, groupers, and raiders forming an army of charmed pets and solo dungeon farmers ravaging all content. Too many people like to ignore the low levels and focus on high level things being ignorant of how that low level experience changes the high level landscape. These changes would actually make things better because there should be a much lower high level population and we might actually see raid mobs that don't get perma wiped within a week of each expansion coming out by armies of farmed up alts, charmed pets, and piles upon piles of solo farmed dungeon items. The nerfed clickies, rooted dragons, lawyer questing, etc would all go away if we DID care about level 1 Enchanters and making their life as difficult as it was on live and Enchanter is just the best example. Everyone's life should be more difficult as it was in classic. The "muh game knowledge" excuse is old and tired given the number of proven bugs that would destroy the current ease of P99. It is easier with the existing game knowledge, we don't need it even easier by letting Enchanters casually solo dungeons to level 50 abusing known bugs and then wonder about their power once they get there. | |||
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#36
12-05-2021, 02:31 PM
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Good recommendation if the change was ever implemented to sync up melee swings. I don’t remember having to do that in vanilla EQ but then again I was just a scrub casual like I am on P99. So I really don’t have a lot of vanilla EQ memory
Color shift casts fast but yea in theory could possibly be interrupted by 3 mobs’ staggered swings through a rune. The solution could be to start with the fastest casting stun, but I don’t know if that will actually buy enough time to sit and memorize color shift + stand and fire it off, even using the first spell gem slot for the swap. Maybe it would, hadn’t tried, I just start with color shift typically. There is another solution though, keep both stuns on your bar always. This would mean possibly having to lose something crucial and would definitely mean having to do even more swaps with your remaining spell gems, but it could be done I dunno though, I don’t mind a challenge so I could try it as a char lifelong solo’er. Although if it was too difficult or too much of a hassle I’d probably just join the bandwagon and re-roll necro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] | ||
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#37
12-05-2021, 02:34 PM
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Doesn't affect paladin/SK/Ranger much. Most their spells cast fast and they cast a lot of low level spells (ie, using level 9 flash of light at 60). SK feigning off large packs gets harder, one of the reasons monks were favored for raid zone pulling in-era. Druid and cleric are hardly affected since they usually solo out of melee range anyhow. Fast-cast roots gain their value back compared to their near-worthless state on P1999. Shaman gets a bit harder, but Shamans could already solo West Wastes dragons in-era so if they can't after change, that's a pretty good litmus test that it's overdone. Dungeon solo via means like willingly pulling 4- packs and casually rooting them all one by one gets a lot tougher. Enchanters are generally more hesitant to haste and arm their pets due to the increased number of hits it creates. Necromancers laugh at everyone and continue doing what they do. That's from a high level perspective. At low levels, like teens, pretty much nobody wanted to cast spells while being attacked unless they could time it between mob swings (like flash of light, which casts fast). Danth | |||
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#38
12-05-2021, 02:58 PM
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"I want less people to play a game that ive admitted im bored of, how can i use book-length pseudointellectual arguments to justify this?"
I mean youre right that this will change the high-end meta. Itll shut out existing possibilities for smaller guilds and groups while favoring the largest guilds that can field the most bodies. Itll favor people willing to shell out for powerlevelling. I think you have a fantasy that smaller groups of high-level players will come up with ingenious solutions that let them navigate the absurd new meta. But in reality, there are no ingenious workaround solutions for some problems, "moar bodies" is the only workaround, and this will just lead to more cheesing and more consolidation. It will be the most antisocial thing imaginable as people quickly lose interest in a server with a much lower population than Classic. It might literally kill P99, and it will certainly make it less of a creative problem-solving experience by far. Again, I genuinely think that, as you've stated, you're bored with the game and aren't really doing this for any good faith reasons. But if you somehow are, i hope you exercise some critical thinking--not just gaudy, context-free number crunching, but genuine critical thinking, and consider how the ecosystem balance that P99 exists in are fundamentally different than classic, due to lower population to name only one thing. When was the last time you tried, as a non-professional player, to help lead a mid-sized guild full of people of varying skill level and equipment to success in a raid? I did that last night. I can tell you right now that if we were arbitrarily nerfed with the nebulous promise that MAYBE content will SOMEDAY get easier, what we did would have been impossible, and that everyone's patience would have been long since depleted because the only guilds left that could do anything would be the ones already incumbent with power and game experience. Honestly, i wish i was trolling. Its rather embarrassing to be the only one in this discussion who is being sincere and advocating for the actual people who play the game. But here i am, being sincere while talking to a big fat concern-trolling ret--a big fat concern trolling retiree, ahem. Go join a small guild or go play another game.
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#39
12-05-2021, 03:07 PM
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#40
12-05-2021, 03:15 PM
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A followup, since I'd hate to leave the discussion off on the note where I called you a, uh, retiree.
"Classic, classic" Yes, Classic was a good template. It was also a marketed product intended to maximize arbitrarily the server populations--easy to do given the novelty of the game at the time and the complete lack of competitors--and maximize the amount of time people maintained their subscriptions. The XPing curves and raid population requirements weren't meant as a test of one's honor or skill or whatever, they were meant to maximize profit. So half of Classic was a collection of brilliant game-development insights, and half of it was a Skinner-box monetization model that no longer applies now that other companies have developed even more ruthlessly streamlined models. This is similar to how NES games or arcade games are loaded with artificial difficulty, because the player must feel like they "got their money's worth" out of the cartridge by the cartridge playtime being artificially inflated by non-skill-related factors, or because the player must keep putting quarters into the machine to win. And the strategies for beating games that are "Nintendo hard" are never creative enterprises, they are just exercises in the 'cheesing' that you proclaim so vehemently to oppose. So the idea of exactly reproducing Classic remains as arbitrary, meaningless, impossible, and unrelated to skill as it was before, and so too are your criticisms or proposed changes meaningless. Everyone who has poured effort into P99 has been working on adapting classic. Adapting, that's the word: changing things so they work for a smaller audience and the resultant smaller group sizes. Considering some of the excellent groups I have had as Enchanter, this must have been accomplished with great efficiency, and you being bored with it is definitely a "you" problem.
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