Hardcore

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Malrubius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, you make my point perfectly. WoW was a trivially easy game with some high-end content thrown in at the end-game that had pumped up stats. Does not make it a hard or challenging game by a long shot.

I think Vaelestrasz and most of BWL shuts down your argument completely. The penalty for losing an encounter does not make it hard. The complexity and difficulty of succeeding at the encounter does - using that measurement, it does seem that WoW had some very difficult encounters, moreso than EQ in some cases.

All-around, I think anyone would accept that EQ was a harder game - but WoW has moments and encounters that are definitively harder.

[Anaiyah]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think Vaelestrasz and most of BWL shuts down your argument completely. The penalty for losing an encounter does not make it hard. The complexity and difficulty of succeeding at the encounter does - using that measurement, it does seem that WoW had some very difficult encounters, moreso than EQ in some cases.

All-around, I think anyone would accept that EQ was a harder game - but WoW has moments and encounters that are definitively harder.

God vael was fun on my rogue, and dragonfang blade dropped first kill and I got the server first on Dark Iron...hells ya those were the days. Unlimited mana/rage/energy ftmfw.

As hard as BWL was though AQ40 blew it away.

[HippoNipple]

I see people arguing for both WoW and EQ as being hardest and they are both harder in different ways.

Everquest is hard from level 1 to cap, WoW is really easy from level 1 to cap, no one will argue with that point.

End Game - From here is where opinions will differ. If you think WoW is harder you are talking about the mechanics, communication and team work that go into the actual fight. Yes it is harder than EQ in this aspect but if in WoW you had to deal with the risks/downside to losing a fight in EQ you would never get these skills down because you can't repeat the fights as quickly or as often.

Everquest has different aspects of the game, some created by the community themselves (guild competition for territory) that make it hard besides the mechanics of a certain fight. Every fight in WoW is like getting to the next level where you have your specific strategy that you have to be able to execute correctly. If you fail you just pick up where you left off. Everquest you have to be a little more innovative and there usually isn't this feeling like you conquered one fight and are moving onto the next level, it is one large level.

I think WoW can get more complicated inside the individual fights but Everquest definitely gets the adrenaline going more so then WoW because every small victory is just a relief that it wasn't in fact a failure. Successfully completing a full raid in EQ is rarer, even if not as technical inside the individual fights.

[Anaiyah]

Originally Posted by HippoNipple [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I see people arguing for both WoW and EQ as being hardest and they are both harder in different ways.

Everquest is hard from level 1 to cap, WoW is really easy from level 1 to cap, no one will argue with that point.

End Game - From here is where opinions will differ. If you think WoW is harder you are talking about the mechanics, communication and team work that go into the actual fight. Yes it is harder than EQ in this aspect but if in WoW you had to deal with the risks/downside to losing a fight in EQ you would never get these skills down because you can't repeat the fights as quickly or as often.

Everquest has different aspects of the game, some created by the community themselves (guild competition for territory) that make it hard besides the mechanics of a certain fight. Every fight in WoW is like getting to the next level where you have your specific strategy that you have to be able to execute correctly. If you fail you just pick up where you left off. Everquest you have to be a little more innovative and there usually isn't this feeling like you conquered one fight and are moving onto the next level, it is one large level.

I think WoW can get more complicated inside the individual fights but Everquest definitely gets the adrenaline going more so then WoW because every small victory is just a relief that it wasn't in fact a failure. Successfully completing a full raid in EQ is rarer, even if not as technical inside the individual fights.

This man speaks the truth!

[Malrubius]

Well depending on your definition of "hard", you can certainly make the argument that WoW *raiding* is hard. But until you get rid of...

-no real drawback to dying
-insta-travel almost as bad as pok (but not AS bad I'll grant you)
-essentially free uber gear for all
-floating ?'s and !'s above mobs' heads of all things
-maps with a floating gps dot
-instances (look Mom, no trains)
etc. etc. etc.

...then it's still an easy game.

EDIT -> Hippo said it better than I could. Level 1 to 200 (or whatever the max is in wow this month), WoW is far easier.

[Reiker]

Originally Posted by Malrubius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bleah, WoW *is* too easy, it really is. I'll cut-and-paste an earlier post...



Sure, most gaming companies could make an easy, WoW-like, game, and then add a boss mob (or 100 boss mobs) at the end-game with a gazillion hitpoints, 10 heads, and an attitude. But that doesn't change the fact that it is an easy game.

I think my least favorite aspect of WoW is the gear reset every expansion. What's the point of raiding Expansion X when the first quests from Expansion Y will have better green gear than the top raid purples you had? That's one thing that EQ did very well... when an expansion like GoD came out, only the bleeding edge guilds will actually be progressing through it, and then you have multiple raid guilds still trying to kill aow and progressing through ntov, ssra, vt, pop, etc. Of course, this also has its disadvantages (middle tier players are much less likely to purchase GoD, or SoE has to implement game breaking bonuses like PoK that benefit everyone) but I still definitely prefer it over this "game reset" WoW expansion bs.

The completely boring and useless level 1-Max quest grind would probably be my #2 gripe.

In a few years the max level will be like 125 and you'll be able to grind 20+ levels an hour. The game's "bloating" at an astounding rate, so Blizzard can sell more boxes.

[Overcast]

Originally Posted by Anaiyah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This man speaks the truth!

Indeed, well said. Better articulated than I did. I was trying to do that without coming across as 'bashing' WoW. I do like many parts of the game.