Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Key take home points:

-JBB is, at best, marginally useful other than PLing the late 40s and early 50s
-Racial regen > FSI
-the best solo artist shaman was a barbarian
-iksar shaman will do great

I can repeat myself too!

Honorable mention argument is that barbarian is actually the best choice for the following reasons

-you have a bear hat
-you’re a polar bear in bear form
-you level to 60 faster significantly faster

Supporting data (100% true):

-at 60 there is literally nothing you cannot do or solo easily as any race. If you can do it on a troll/iksar/ogre you can do it just as easily on a barbarian.
-faster to 60 is bigger jumpstart on the endgame power curve (gear/farming/etc)

/thread

Ps: FSI is almost as overrated as JBB.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can repeat myself too!

You do indeed like to repeat bad trolls and nonsense.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-at 60 there is literally nothing you cannot do or solo easily as any race. If you can do it on a troll/iksar/ogre you can do it just as easily on a barbarian.
-faster to 60 is bigger jumpstart on the endgame power curve (gear/farming/etc)
Ps: FSI is almost as overrated as JBB.

All of these points are trivial to disprove.

Whether or not you can do more content at 60 is irrelevant to which racial is factually better. FSI gives you a bigger bonus than Iksar/Troll Regen at level 60 with Torpor, and therefore it is better for Min/Maxing.

Leveling speed is not relevant to what is Min/Max. Changing the default definition of Min/Max is not the correct way to win the debate. You clearly know the actual definition of Min/Max, because you agree Iksar Monks are better than Human Monks. The Min/Max definition used to arrive at this conclusion is the same Min/Max definition used to figure out which Shaman racial is best. You cannot have it both ways.

Troxx still has not provided any evidence to support his claims about JBB, and it is easy to disprove his nonsensical idea that JBB is useless levels 50+ with basic math.

Unfortunately Troxx can only provide "I am right and you are wrong" statements and silly gifs. Sadly this is not an argument.

[Toxigen]

i want to go to a holiday party with DSM

[Tann]

we've not quite hit peak performance, this thread is only gaining 1-3 pages per day.

[Naethyn]

It's called an ogre wall on tunare for a reason.

[Naethyn]

also interestingly iksars are the best tank for tunare because of small waist and tall.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

also interestingly iksars are the best tank for tunare because of small waist and tall.

Not enough analysis of hit and collision boxes from a min max perspective! I love this post!

You know these boxes also change depending on whether the model is male or female?

Which is best Tunare tank? Boy or girl?

[Troxx]

General facts:

Fact: any level 60 shaman with torpor can solo any mob that is shaman soloable
Fact: Botb solo artist is/was a barbarian (this furthermore supports the above fact)

Racial facts:

Fact: barbarians level much faster, large race perks (stats/slam), and can use JBB
Fact: iksars get racial regen and ac boost
Fact: trolls get racial regen, large race perks (stats/slam) and can use JBB
Fact: ogres get FSI, large race perks (stats/slam) and can use JBB

Racial perk facts:

Fact: racial regen is present from level 1, scales up with level, and provides benefit 100% of the time you are not 100% hp.
Fact: FSI is present from level 1
Fact: Bash used to stun 100% of the time - no longer
Fact: mobs have a 50% chance to kick (not bash) and miss 50% of the time.
Fact: unslowed mobs have a 25% chance to land a bash every 8 seconds … of which only a portion of said landed bashes will result in an actual stun
Fact: FSI only stops you from being stunned by a bash, not from being interrupted fully
Fact: FSI will result in actually experiencing less interrupts

The above are facts.
They are not subjective.

What follows below is the meat of the discussion. I will add the disclaimer that despite my or anyone else’s actual opinion this falls within the realm of the subjective. Depending on what an individual person values, the actual “best” choice will differ.

It is annoying to be interrupted while casting. I fully agree with this. If I’m fully honest, I cannot think of a single instance where a bash did anything but mildly annoy me. I cannot recall a single instance where being bashed meant I died, someone around me died, or I failed to achieve the objective I had set out to do. Hasn’t happened to me. Not once, not ever. Not in 60 levels of shaman. Not on my mage, cleric, paladin, Ranger, or druid. Closest ever has been on my necro with a quadding charm break … but necros can’t be ogres and it didn’t kill or really set me back much.

A compelling argument (opinion) can be made for FSI, but it has not been nor will it be objectively proven to be “best”. The stars and planets have to align perfectly for it to ever be the deal maker/breaker … and even then … if a single frontal bash stun is what got you killed, I’d argue it’s because your gameplay is poor. You shouldn’t be (ever) in a position where a bash kills ya.

So what do you have with FSI? If the mob isnt slowed you have about a 25% chance to be bashed every 8 seconds but only a portion of those bashes will result in a stun. If a landed bash wasn’t going to stun you - no benefit. Whatever frequency it would have actually resulted in a stun, make that frequency even smaller once you have the mob slowed.

So what do you have with FSI? You have immunity from a minor annoyance that doesn’t actually decrease your chance of success at pretty irregular intervals.

Now, I’m not saying it doesn’t have value. It certainly does … but when you compare that to all the extra hp (and mana) you give up over the course of your character’s life … it does not even begin to cover the gap.

There are 59 levels before 60. There is possible time at 60 where you might not yet even have a copy of torpor. Once you do have torpor, even a barbarian will have no problems … and they don’t get either bonuses. Regen is amazing. Regrowth is still the most mana efficient heal in a shaman’s toolkit (9.5 health per mana vs 6-7.5 from torpor depending on whether you got the extra tick).

What does FSI let you accomplish that you couldn’t without? Nothing. So really we’re just talking annoyance mitigation and a tiny quality of life improvement.

Compared to innate, continuous regen that is good for any class but even more so on a caster that converts hp to mana.

A good read regarding FSI:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s....php?p=3429132

What is the best race?

Top priority: fashion quest (always) … any race
Fastest leveling: barbarian
“I have autism and can’t think abstractly” - ogre
Best quality of life for the life of your character: troll/iksar
Want that regen and to PL yourself with a JBB: troll

Don’t kid yourself bro. FSI doesn’t help you solo anything better. There’s nothing you can or have solo’d that any other race of shaman can’t or hasn’t also solo’d.

Weren’t you caught on video not being able to root rot 4 KC mobs?

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[fortior]

Ogres biggest benefit is the absurd stats you get at classic launch letting you melee super hard as a shaman, FSI is like a good to have but it’s never going to save you unless you intentionally put yourself in overly risky positions. If I had zero race bias I would go troll or barb because once you are 60 with torpor you have already won and barbarians earn dkp at the same rate as ogres and iksar

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

“I have autism and can’t think abstractly”

Very good post overall, well structured and I agree 100% with your conclusions.

But please don't imply autistic people can't think abstractly. That perpetuates a harmful stereotype.