NPC Push

[Rygar]

Literally ignoring all the vox posts about push not working, piranha ledge comment is laughable. Where does it mention push to interrupt? Could simply be it bashes or absorbs the spell damage for you since its taunting.

Plenty of folks talking about needing to bash phinny guards to interrupt.

Keep dreaming of push to interrupt npc fantasies tho

[Croco]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Literally ignoring all the vox posts about push not working, piranha ledge comment is laughable. Where does it mention push to interrupt? Could simply be it bashes or absorbs the spell damage for you since its taunting.

Plenty of folks talking about needing to bash phinny guards to interrupt.

Keep dreaming of push to interrupt npc fantasies tho

They aren't dreams, they're memories of playing on live in era on a monk that would regularly interrupt casters with my dual fists after I got the monk epic.

It was a tactic that was so well known and commonplace that they literally gave monks a knockback AA ability in Luclin that we used to reliably interrupt casters.

Gleaning useful information from peoples comments on EQ back in '99-'02 is incredibly difficult because as you've helpfully pointed out people made comments back then with sometimes little more than guesses about how things worked. The comments from people who clearly detail how something worked and having that comment corroborated by multiple people over multiple years are the comments that deserve to be considered truth above others.

There are dozens of examples of people understanding how pushing npc's was used to interrupt spells from '99 into the mid '00s and beyond. Most people didn't think or understand it being a thing because they didn't play a melee class that attacked fast enough to generate the requisite push.

[Rygar]

Show the many posts of the monk community talking of the epic interrupt ability then. Or was this class changing mechanic just kept quiet from everyone for fear of a nerf?

Literally 2 dual wield melee attacking would generate more speed than an epic monk, surely there are thousands of "duh bro just push mobs to interrupt gate what is your problem?"

[Croco]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Show the many posts of the monk community talking of the epic interrupt ability then. Or was this class changing mechanic just kept quiet from everyone for fear of a nerf?

Literally 2 dual wield melee attacking would generate more speed than an epic monk, surely there are thousands of "duh bro just push mobs to interrupt gate what is your problem?"

It's super easy to look at it in hindsight and say something like that. Oh obviously if this was super common people would've documented it literally EVERYWHERE. But people had no clue at all that posts on EQ message boards, and guild forums, and on random allah pages would be taken has 'The Word of God' handed down on high for all of us to base free servers on where everything would be scrutinized to the nanometer.

I found those examples with my limited knowledge and ability to search old EQ stuff in about 30 minutes. I'm sure other people who have access to non-public databases or who know way more research tricks than me could find dozens more examples, maybe even a hundred such examples depending how wide a net you want to cast.

[unroot]

croco making good points with evidence

people arguing vs him with memory hole strawmans

can we put this bed yet staff

[Rygar]

He didn't post reliable evidence, just claims of memory evidence. On the other hand in my other thread I have actual links to evidence of people saying pushing around mobs does jack shit. Never mind the thousands of parsed hours of logs from EQmac.

[Detoxx]

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Bumping to try and figure out why, even though several posts and plenty of evidence shows this change was incorrect, it still is not being changed back.

[Rygar]

Those posts literally say mana sieve as well. As a melee, if you push a bunch of mobs while sieving you may clearly think your movement stopped them when in fact the sieve did.

Emu talking about disabling push issues is laughable, clearly talking about challenges of relating a mechanic to certain types of characters.

As is also said, no patch notes relating to push to interrupt. Go on current live and push a mob around, lemme know how that interrupts.

Clear case of cherry picking evidence in hope of relieving butt hurt. Mad confirmed.

[long.liam]

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are tons of changes that Verant & Sony put into the game via patches that did not end up in patch notes. They left stuff out of patch notes literally all the time.

Here's a link from a player back in the day that was keeping track himself of changes to various spells and if you go and cross reference those changes with patch notes you find plenty of them not listed in the corresponding patch notes from when they were put in game.

(re: https://web.archive.org/web/20020205.../spdatch.shtml)

That's just from Aug/01 to Jan/02 and there are a number of examples just from changed spells. To say nothing of quests, mechanics, abilities... etc. Just because there are no patch notes saying something changed does not mean it didn't change. There are too many examples to the contrary.

The Official Everquest Patch notes and code dumps from the EQ devs are the most reliable source of information for how the game actually worked. The only source that comes close to that is In era Vidoes and Verified Log files. Everything else is just anecdote that is subject to a heavy dose of skepticism. Unless whatever anecdote you post is backed up by credible sources, I'd say it can be mostly ignored and filed away as a speculative curiosity. It's quite possible that the EQ devs did "ninja" patches during the timeline, but without actual reliable evidence we have no way of Knowing what they did. Defaulting to current live mechanics in most cases is usually best in the absence of reliable data.

[Detoxx]

Originally Posted by long.liam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Official Everquest Patch notes and code dumps from the EQ devs are the most reliable source of information for how the game actually worked. The only source that comes close to that is In era Vidoes and Verified Log files. Everything else is just anecdote that is subject to a heavy dose of skepticism. Unless whatever anecdote you post is backed up by credible sources, I'd say it can be mostly ignored and filed away as a speculative curiosity. It's quite possible that the EQ devs did "ninja" patches during the timeline, but without actual reliable evidence we have no way of Knowing what they did. Defaulting to current live mechanics in most cases is usually best in the absence of reliable data.

Yet they changed DN spiders to summon based on one post from Allakhazam 20 years ago. No logs, no Video, no Patch notes. That is cherry picking.

Mobs were able to be pushed. I could find plenty more evidence but the evidence above by me and others is enough. And again, the evidence they used to take away push was based on a completely different coded source. Alkabor had to be recoded from the bottom up to get it on macs.

There are other reasons they wont change it.