ZEM changes

[zaneosak]

Wiki table has been updated with the new values. I think an interesting thing to note is that it seems that the staff has not only brought all outdoor zones up to a 33% bonus. But also seems to have a few "tiers" of dungeons. The Double XP Tier (150 ZEM) and the 125 ZEM Tier.

I think the fact that they increased so many dungeons at different rates lends to the theory that the old wiki numbers were slightly off before (although impressive how close they were)

For example. Why would Perma get 88% increase from 90 ZEM and give it a new ZEM of 169? Seems odd. Same with Kedge Keep 100 ZEM into 163 ZEM.

I think it's more likely that Perma was really an 80 ZEM all along and got bumped up to the 150 level (80->150 , 88% increase) Along with all of the other zones that seemingly bumped up above 150%.

so many dungeons are 150% (old Upper Guk model) it might be the case. Or maybe Perma is so far away and such a pain in the ass to get to, they want to really reward that travel above the rest.

Either way -- thanks staff - will bring some freshness to some alts I am sure.

[strongNpretty]

So ready to travel this weekend to a new zone!! Woo thanks staff!!!

[larper99]

Originally Posted by zaneosak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wiki table has been updated with the new values. I think an interesting thing to note is that it seems that the staff has not only brought all outdoor zones up to a 33% bonus. But also seems to have a few "tiers" of dungeons. The Double XP Tier (150 ZEM) and the 125 ZEM Tier.

I think the fact that they increased so many dungeons at different rates lends to the theory that the old wiki numbers were slightly off before (although impressive how close they were)

For example. Why would Perma get 88% increase from 90 ZEM and give it a new ZEM of 169? Seems odd. Same with Kedge Keep 100 ZEM into 163 ZEM.

I think it's more likely that Perma was really an 80 ZEM all along and got bumped up to the 150 level (80->150 , 88% increase) Along with all of the other zones that seemingly bumped up above 150%.

so many dungeons are 150% (old Upper Guk model) it might be the case. Or maybe Perma is so far away and such a pain in the ass to get to, they want to really reward that travel above the rest.

Either way -- thanks staff - will bring some freshness to some alts I am sure.

If all of the zones have at least a 33% bonus, using outdoors as a baseline, then there is no such bonus. It is the baseline. Thinking of the "75=100" thing as the base for a bonus just makes all the calculations more difficult. Baseline is baseline, ie, 100%. Thus all outdoor zones define the new baseline, which should simply be thought of as 100%, or "1XP = 1XP". Thus a zone with a ZEM of 150 is getting a 50% bonus, not a 100%, or double, bonus.

[zaneosak]

Originally Posted by larper99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If all of the zones have at least a 33% bonus, using outdoors as a baseline, then there is no such bonus. It is the baseline. Thinking of the "75=100" thing as the base for a bonus just makes all the calculations more difficult. Baseline is baseline, ie, 100%. Thus all outdoor zones define the new baseline, which should simply be thought of as 100%, or "1XP = 1XP". Thus a zone with a ZEM of 150 is getting a 50% bonus, not a 100%, or double, bonus.

Actually it matters because of how XP is Calculated. 75 is only the baseline because of how XP per mob is calculated (ZEM * Level^2) Also there are still zones with 75 ZEM, Lower guk and Sol B.

It might "feel" over time like the new normal is 100 ZEM which obviously it is, but it doesn't change the fact that if you leveled in a 75 ZEM zone it would take you 14 level 1 mobs to ding level 2 and in a 100 ZEM zone it would take you 10 mobs to ding level 2.

It's still faster mobs per level with the new adjustments. I think I understand your point though..... in 5 years from now. 10 mobs in a newbie zone from level 1 to 2 will be the new normal and 150 ZEM will be only 50% faster than the new zones, it's all true, but those of us who leveled in 75 ZEM outdoor zones should be able to feel the difference.

[Dolalin]

In classic, from level 1-6 you got a newbie ZEM of 100 no matter your zone, according to the ShowEQ dev's posts I found anyways. So these ZEM rises will actually provide a more classic newbie levels experience (if all outdoors are ZEM 100 now which seems to be the case).

I won't bother crunching the other numbers even though I could, I'm cool with leaving it a bit of a mystery.

[Zephire]

Originally Posted by Faxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

hmm definitely wrong in my opinion. On my server (Bertox), zones like Paw, Runnyeye and Permafrost and Gorge of Xorb (we called it Beholder's) were hot spots for exp grinding. I dont think anyone knew the exact exp modifiers back then but it was definitely Classic to see many groups exp'ing in these zones.

I agree.. was this way on Brell also. Paw, Runnyeye and Perma were all heavily camped up until Kunark came out.

[larper99]

Originally Posted by zaneosak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually it matters because of how XP is Calculated. 75 is only the baseline because of how XP per mob is calculated (ZEM * Level^2) Also there are still zones with 75 ZEM, Lower guk and Sol B.

It might "feel" over time like the new normal is 100 ZEM which obviously it is, but it doesn't change the fact that if you leveled in a 75 ZEM zone it would take you 14 level 1 mobs to ding level 2 and in a 100 ZEM zone it would take you 10 mobs to ding level 2.

It's still faster mobs per level with the new adjustments. I think I understand your point though..... in 5 years from now. 10 mobs in a newbie zone from level 1 to 2 will be the new normal and 150 ZEM will be only 50% faster than the new zones, it's all true, but those of us who leveled in 75 ZEM outdoor zones should be able to feel the difference.

No, it doesn't matter. The new baseline may have changed from 14mobs to 10.5mobs, but so what? 150 is still a 50% increase from 100, so a zone with a 150 ZEM will take 10.5mobs / 1.5 = 7mobs. Yeah, 14 is 200% of 7, but 10.5 is 150% of 7.

Stop thinking of the old baseline as some sort of magic number. It is just a baseline. They changed it. A ZEM of 150 has a 50% bonus over a ZEM of 100. The fact that is has a 200% bonus over a ZEM of 75 is irrelevant, since the new baseline is 100.

Actually, I guess your last paragraph says the same thing, so we are in violent agreement. Also, we don't know that they didn't change other variables. Rogean simply stated that they defined the outdoor zones as the baseline, and adjusted all ZEMs to reflect that. It still might take 14 mobs to go from 1 to 2, even with the new ZEM values. That will take experimentation.

[Christina.]

Told you Bellamy lol.

What server were you on!? Lol cause in 1999 on the seventh hammer, paw was LIT and like another commenter said the thought of going pass those double doors was scary as hell haha.. but anyway, the change is awesome. I can't wait to get immersed.

[zaneosak]

Originally Posted by larper99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, it doesn't matter. The new baseline may have changed from 14mobs to 10.5mobs, but so what? 150 is still a 50% increase from 100, so a zone with a 150 ZEM will take 10.5mobs / 1.5 = 7mobs. Yeah, 14 is 200% of 7, but 10.5 is 150% of 7.

Stop thinking of the old baseline as some sort of magic number. It is just a baseline. They changed it. A ZEM of 150 has a 50% bonus over a ZEM of 100. The fact that is has a 200% bonus over a ZEM of 75 is irrelevant, since the new baseline is 100.

Actually, I guess your last paragraph says the same thing, so we are in violent agreement. Also, we don't know that they didn't change other variables. Rogean simply stated that they defined the outdoor zones as the baseline, and adjusted all ZEMs to reflect that. It still might take 14 mobs to go from 1 to 2, even with the new ZEM values. That will take experimentation.

I mean It's not worth arguing that much about but the math is just math as far as it being faster. It's definitely faster, whether it's the new baseline or not is a separate topic. Your XP bar did not adjust with the new "baseline" xp, so killing ten lvl 10 bandits in WK 2 days ago was 7,500 XP no matter how you slice it and Today its 10,000. (before racial and class bonuses of course) Yes you had to kill 4 bandits 2 days ago to get the same XP as 3 bandits will give you today [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] It definitely does not scale with the change unless Rogean changed the XP bar for each level, which seems unlikely.

[rewinder47]

I don't understand. Does this apply to both Green and Blue? It lists zones that aren't in Green yet.

Also, do they not know what the ZEMs were for classic EQ? If not, then this sort of makes sense I guess. But if they do have access to that information, I don't understand why they would be making custom balance changes like this on a server that is supposed to replicate classic EQ.

I don't really have a problem with these changes, because they are good changes, it just seems odd to me where they are drawing the line of what is "classic" and what isn't. Like, if they are going to make changes to encourage the use of certain zones, how about getting rid of the XP penalties to encourage the use of hybrid classes? Especially when Verant themselves admitted it was a design mistake that shouldn't have happened?