Game Mechanics: The Master Stamina Bug Report (2017)

[Sorn]

I am now searching through some old logs Mcoy generously shared with me!

His wizard:

[Tue Dec 18 20:56:20 2001] Jenguran tells the group, 'does having no stamina hinder meditation ya think?'
[Tue Dec 18 20:56:22 2001] Minladar begins to cast a spell.
[Tue Dec 18 20:56:26 2001] Minladar looks energized.
[Tue Dec 18 20:56:30 2001] You tell your party, 'dunno... gimme some :P'
[Tue Dec 18 20:56:31 2001] Minladar begins to cast a spell.
[Tue Dec 18 20:56:33 2001] You tell your party, 'hehe'
[Tue Dec 18 20:56:35 2001] Jenguran looks energized.
[Tue Dec 18 20:56:38 2001] Minladar tells the group, 'dont kno it must'

[Tue Dec 18 19:48:11 2001] Jenguran tells the group, 'who needs a zing?'
[Tue Dec 18 19:48:22 2001] Chagal tells the group, 'i do please'
[Tue Dec 18 19:48:26 2001] Jenguran begins to cast a spell.
[Tue Dec 18 19:48:30 2001] Chagal looks energized.

[Tue Dec 18 19:50:31 2001] --Calyx has looted a Swordfish Bill.--
[Tue Dec 18 19:50:39 2001] You begin casting Harvest.
[Tue Dec 18 19:50:41 2001] Jenguran tells the group, 'say if you need zing or eb'
[Tue Dec 18 19:50:48 2001] Minladar tells the group, 'inc regen'
[Tue Dec 18 19:50:49 2001] a gloomwater mermaid begins to cast a spell.
[Tue Dec 18 19:50:49 2001] Minladar begins to cast a spell.
[Tue Dec 18 19:50:49 2001] Your spell is interrupted.
[Tue Dec 18 19:50:49 2001] You are stunned!
[Tue Dec 18 19:50:49 2001] You gather mana from your surroundings.
[Tue Dec 18 19:50:51 2001] You tell your party, 'how long does EB last?'

Mcoy's monk has some logs about stamina, specifically zinging

[Thu Aug 08 20:16:06 2002] You tell your party, 'thanks.. will say zing when I need it'

[Thu Aug 08 16:01:37 2002] Your body zings with energy.
[Thu Aug 08 16:17:02 2002] Your body zings with energy.
[Thu Aug 08 16:18:51 2002] Your body zings with energy.
[Thu Aug 08 20:20:44 2002] Your body zings with energy.

I'd have to ask Mcoy why he was randomly too fatigued to jump here...as a monk he would've been pulling but it looks like he was fighting here.

[Sun Sep 15 15:28:25 2002] You receive 1 platinum, 9 silver and 8 copper from the corpse.
[Sun Sep 15 15:28:29 2002] A sarnak recruit hits YOU for 34 points of damage.
[Sun Sep 15 15:28:29 2002] A sarnak recruit tries to bash YOU, but misses!
[Sun Sep 15 15:28:29 2002] A sarnak recruit tries to bash YOU, but misses!
[Sun Sep 15 15:28:30 2002] Expired saved.
[Sun Sep 15 15:28:31 2002] Tbeanie tells the guild, 'thank u [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]'
[Sun Sep 15 15:28:32 2002] You are too fatigued to jump!
[Sun Sep 15 15:28:32 2002] A sarnak recruit tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Sun Sep 15 15:28:32 2002] A sarnak recruit tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Sun Sep 15 15:28:38 2002] Luwelyn tells the guild, '=)'
[Sun Sep 15 15:29:29 2002] You receive 6 gold, 8 silver and 7 copper from the corpse.
[Sun Sep 15 15:29:32 2002] --You have looted a Part of Tasarin's Grimoire Pg. 390.--
[Sun Sep 15 15:29:36 2002] You begin to bandage yourself.
[Sun Sep 15 15:29:37 2002] Expired saved.

Here's his beastlord, which apparently spent a lot of time jumping:

[Fri Feb 28 21:59:45 2003] You are too fatigued to jump!
[Fri Feb 28 21:59:49 2003] Grihmm begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Feb 28 21:59:49 2003] Tribal Lookout glowers at you dubiously -- looks like quite a gamble.
[Fri Feb 28 21:59:50 2003] Grihmm grows stronger.
[Fri Feb 28 21:59:51 2003] Tbeanie tells the guild, 'oh really /wiggles eye brows'
[Fri Feb 28 21:59:52 2003] You tell your party, 'Assisting Grihmm'
[Fri Feb 28 21:59:53 2003] Gdevash`s warder tells you, 'Attacking Tribal Lookout Master.'
[Fri Feb 28 21:59:54 2003] Auto attack is on.
[Fri Feb 28 21:59:57 2003] You punch Tribal Lookout for 25 points of damage.
[Fri Feb 28 21:59:58 2003] Taunting attacker, Master.

[Sun Apr 27 03:07:15 2003] You told Zapo, 'you remember when I showed you how to get up on top of the walls in fp ?'
[Sun Apr 27 03:07:28 2003] Zapo tells you, 'yep [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]'
[Sun Apr 27 03:07:35 2003] You told Zapo, 'heh you can *still* do that, lol'
[Sun Apr 27 03:08:06 2003] You told Zapo, 'hrm this char might be too tall'
[Sun Apr 27 03:08:07 2003] You begin casting Spirit of Wolf.
[Sun Apr 27 03:08:09 2003] Your spell is interrupted.
[Sun Apr 27 03:08:09 2003] You begin casting Shrink.
[Sun Apr 27 03:08:13 2003] You told Zapo, 'shrink myself .. heh'
[Sun Apr 27 03:08:13 2003] You feel smaller.
[Sun Apr 27 03:08:24 2003] Zapo tells you, 'hehe'
[Sun Apr 27 03:08:25 2003] You are too fatigued to jump!
[Sun Apr 27 03:08:38 2003] You told Zapo, 'with Qien or mcc I can just run and jump right up ther,e lol'
[Sun Apr 27 03:08:58 2003] You no longer have a target.
[Sun Apr 27 03:09:33 2003] You told Zapo, 'bah vah shir can't make it up lol'

[Tue May 20 19:54:12 2003] You tell your party, 'lost lol'
[Tue May 20 19:54:16 2003] An underbulk hits YOU for 58 points of damage.
[Tue May 20 19:54:16 2003] An underbulk hits YOU for 43 points of damage.
[Tue May 20 19:54:22 2003] You tell your party, 'kk omw'
[Tue May 20 19:54:32 2003] You tell your party, 'be in range in 10 secs'
[Tue May 20 19:54:39 2003] Resseructor has healed you for 612 points of damage.
[Tue May 20 19:54:39 2003] You feel much better.
[Tue May 20 19:54:40 2003] You are too fatigued to jump!
[Tue May 20 19:54:43 2003] You tell your party, 'thanks ;p'

[Bummey]

fix this please tia

It's not classic without begging your group for a zing

[Yuuvy The Destroyer]

I don't think devs would find a way to make it work right. tbh

And sta loss was mostly negated by acumen.

Swimming long distances would eventually drain the bar. Running long distances without food would eventually drain the bar and make you run slower.

[Nirgon]

Less than 90 sta I believe and you should be snared if out of stamina

Then of course ya, melee stuff but maybe do that as a separate big thing. The swimming stuff and being able to spam jump without having to save a little is a bit of an immersion killer.

[Rygar]

I had a thought... If you wanted to test this, could you load original EQ and just launch the tutorial without running any patching? I thought the tutorial let you basically run and move around just like in game. Maybe you can jump there to see how much stamina depletes per jump. And I'm just guessing your tutorial character starts <100 stamina, so can evaluate fatigued effects? I think there was maybe even a small lake to swim in.

A long shot, but something to maybe go off of? Not sure if devs would accept that as evidence, but may be the best we have to work with if so.

Not sure if you need original version of EQ or the trilogy to do this. Not sure if titanium tutorial would use updated stuff.

[Sorn]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I had a thought... If you wanted to test this, could you load original EQ and just launch the tutorial without running any patching?

I think it's included in Trilogy as well as classic but I lost my original EQ client CD in the 4 moves since I last used it, so I don't have the tutorial. In addition, since it was a standalone thing and super buggy, I don't know if all the mechanics would've been included.

If anyone's got that, it might be worth a try.

[Sorn]

Due to my propensity to ask everyone I meet about what they remember of stamina, I was given this treasure trove of legit in era posts about stamina:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!se...I/PVAVeHBkLncJ

From around 24 to 40 I got Zing requests all the time, but since then they
are very rare. I assumed it was because people were getting lighter weapons,
but after some long boring greenie camps where topics wandered, I discovered
its because they got their stamina to 100 and have found that there is no
noticable effect on them when their stamina runs out.

Thats not to say there -isn't- some effect, its just that if there is its so
minimal
that noone cares about it.

I made my Beastlord STA 100 on creation; more HP and immunity to the
concerns of stamina loss was my thinking. Now I find that the beastlord
weapons are all apparantly extremely light! Oh well, I'll be happy about
it when I get to Kedge camping.

>I have a 45 Warrior that I recently equipped with a Wurmmy. STA seems
>to be a problem using this weapon. in a prolonged (group) fight STA is
>reduced to the point where I feel that I have to back off. There
>follows a rapid recovery, to 20-30 % and I rejoin the fray. Sometimes
>I go through this routine 2 maybe 3 times if multiple mobs are
>involved.
>
>What happens if STA goes to zero ?

Nothing evidently if your chars stamina is at least 100. If its lower
than 100 when you run out of stamina you will be hitting visibly
slower.

Wurmy is kind of the realm of large race melee types who are more
likely to have at least 100 stamina. I think my troll sk has like 120
base stamina and in the crustacean plate and other gear she has on she
is at 198 stamina currently. Wielding a wurmy for her is like some
races wielding a dagger. Even in prolonged fights her stamina still
has some left in it. Of course dual wielding something and a wurmy you
lose stam faster.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!se...s/y7ZUgCof4kMJ

Until very very recently (I'm level 49) I totally neglected 1HS. The
only semi-decent 1HS around at low-mid levels is the Wurmslayer, and
this is *very* heavy for any race other than Ogre and Troll to wield
without depleting your stamina bar after one fight.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...U/8M2c4IuGgHEJ

From the map on EQAtlas, it seems my best hope would be to try swimming
directly south to the island with an elven outpost. Would those elves be
KOS to me? I am a woody ranger with typical "good" factions. Is the swim
possible at my level? Im 20th, and my swimming is 29. What will happen to
me if my stamina runs out? I noticed even in the fairly short trip from
shuttles to island I lost 4 out of 5 bubbles of sta.

There's more in there and it goes waaaaaay back.

[Sorn]

This guy posted the numbers!
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!se...o/PgjukFbKC1YJ

I just logged on a new char, 100 sta, jumped until stamina bar drained
and checked stats, no change. Deleted him and made a 75 sta, jumped
and when bar ran out suffered -10 to sta, dex and agi. I tried
fighting a few battles with each to test slowing in battle, but I
couldn't see anything noticeable either way. I do know with my
Barbarian Warrior, 105 sta, I have never noticed any slowing from sta
running out, even after very long overpulls where bar is empty for a
long time.

Someone decided to drown cats and lizards and time how long it took. EQ players are sadistic.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...st/BO_TG1atfKE

The test scenario:
Create two Iksar Shaman and two Vah Shir Shaman. Make one of each have a
stamina of 80, and one of each with a stamina of 100. (These chosen to
find to races where we could make the class and starting stamina exactly
equal to eliminate them as possible contributing factors.)All characters
level one with zero xp. No additional points, etc. put into swimming
skill, so they all had the default swimming skill, which of course puts
the leezards much higher. The test was to simply jump into the water,
sink, not swim at all, and see how long it took to drown.

The results:

Vah Shir STA 80:
started drowning 45 sec
unconscious 55 sec
dead 60 sec

Vah Shir STA 100:
started drowning 75 sec
unconscious 85 sec
dead 90 sec

Iksar STA 80:
started drowning 130 sec
unconscious 140 sec
dead 145 sec

Iksar STA 100:
started drowning 130 sec
unconscious 150 sec
dead 155 sec

53 Halfling Druid, STA 85, Swimming 191: 56 seconds to begin drowning
1 Halfling Druid, STA 85, Swimming 0: 56 seconds to begin drowning

Well I'll be damned. This is why we do experiments eh?

More swimming and stamina bar:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!se...Y/wgjmHiu2nUoJ

ver had that feeling something *really* bad has happened? I have now lol. I
was holding my breath when my stamina bar ran out thinking I'd end up
drowning luckily it didn't and I didn't :-)

Proof of running draining stamina, along with a summary of how it was believed to work in classic:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!se...k/lxcfY4K0mj8J

> I have noticed that when I take the boat, my stamina goes down (as thought I
> were running) and sometimes the bar drops to just plain zero, but then,
> sortof magically pops back up again to full (and this before I zone).

From my own reading and experiments, here's what is
known, or at least *thought* to be known about stamina, including boats,
etc.:

When you ride a boat, Verant, for whatever reason, doesn't want you
staying on there, fighting, holding parties, etc. (Why anyone would want
to is a mystery, since the boat code is so freaking buggy.) So if you're
a caster, you can't cast. And if you're a fighter, your stamina gets
sucked out of you while you ride. I don't think it's a bug. It's
intentional.

When you are swimming on the surface, that stamina bar doesn't mean
shit...... ever. (unless of course you are fighting while swimming under
certain circumstances... see below)

If you are swimming under water, your stamina *bar* doesn't really mean
too much, but your STA stat will determine how long you can hold your
breath before you begin to drown. (See Iksars for the exception to this
rule.)

When you are running, AFAIK, your speed does NOT go down when you run
out of the stamina bar, no matter what your STA is. However, you will be
unable to *jump* and in certain places (the ice floes in IC come to
mind) that can be death if you're running from something(s) nasty.

When you are fighting (this applies primarily to melees, of course) it
is said that your attack delay will start to increase, or you'll hit
less often or some bullshit like that if you become fatigued (stamina
bar runs out) *IF* your STA stat is below 100. I've never found a way to
test it, but I hear it enough that I'm willing to accept it as accurate.
If your STA is above 100 you can go on merrily swinging all day with an
empty stamina bar. Believe me on this. I do it on every raid.

I'm sure other folks could add other pertinent and interesting stamina
bar and STA tidbits, but that's the basics as I know them.

On jumping...
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!se...A/gOjtySJubG0J

>-Jumping while running was nerfed by reducing stamina one half bar every
>jump.
>-Journey Men's boot were introduced.

The Old Jumping while running. You never lost stamina.

[Izmael]

I mained a dwarf rogue back in 2000-2002 and honestly can't remember a single time I'd ask for a stamina buff or zing or whatever. Velious mobs or otherwise. Granted, after 15 years your brain is fried.

The only time I remember it mattering is "too fatigued to jump".

I'd be glad if it played a role on P99 however, the more complex the game at this point, the better.

[Rygar]

Damn, you sure know how to get your research Sorn. I'm jelly, teach me master! I need better hunting spots for data!

I found the drowning data interesting, if ignoring Vah Shir and Iksar data from the data set, we have this info to go off of:

STA= 70, starts drowning in 40 seconds
STA= 78, starts drowning in 50 seconds
STA= 85, starts drowning in 56 seconds
STA= 87, starts drowning in 60 seconds
STA= 96, starts drowning in 68 seconds
STA=116, starts drowning in 90 seconds
STA=150, starts drowning in 105 seconds

Based off that, I would speculate the following:
-The minimum drown time is 30 seconds
-The maximum drown time is 130 seconds (based on iksar test)
-Formula for drowning should be:

If STA =< 115, Time to Drown = (STA - 55) + 30
If STA > 115, Time to Drown = ((STA - 115) / 2) + 90
If Result < 30 seconds, then Time to Drown = 30

Roughly speaking you gain +1 second to drown timer if stamina for every stamina point above 60, but only if stamina is 120 or less. After 115 stamina you gain +1 second to drown timer for every 2 stamina points.

The formulas come out pretty close, those tests could be slightly bugged with some server tick checks or what not. Seems to be within margin of error?

If factoring in 130 second drown ceiling, that would mean ~200 stamina would be your target for maximum time to hold your breath. Additional stamina over this does nothing (kind of consistent with how have over 200 INT did near nothing for your mana pool in classic).

We can also conclude that swim skill had nothing to do with drowning, and that Iksar had a hidden racial ability to ignore STA calculation in drowning and always had max timer (Master Race status: CONFIRMED).