What's the deal with shcool teachers?

[Blingy]

Originally Posted by reznor_ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think teachers (as a collection) do...thats why there are such an array of teachers, and it's why liberals/conservative parents complain that their children are being "indoctrinated" at schools. Parents fucking suck if they can't teach their kids to think critically -- these are people who should never have been allowed to have kids in the first place.

So, I disagree that it should be purely STEM focused. I have a PhD in nuclear engineering. I'm published in a number of peer-reviewed journals. I think liberal arts, social studies, humanities, art, music etc are a critical part of school curriculum, because if the world was entirely STEM focused it would be one of the most boring existences out there. I'm very thankful for my colleagues who aren't scientists and engineers. They help make the world a more interesting place. If our existence was purely left or right brain, how awful a world this would be.

That being said, I completely agree that the definition of "good" is such a tough one to get right. I think it's important to have well rounded curriculum through K-12 and then give someone a few years to figure out what they want to do. I disagree with the "graduate high school and jump right into college" tradition because I think most people don't know what they want to do when they're 18. I certainly didn't.

I think teaching is a hard job. Often thankless. I'm referring to the K-12 path here -- I have friends who love their jobs as professors and make a lot of money doing it, but they also work at very prestigious universities and write a lot of grants and are rewarded for it. I have friends who teach middle and high school, and that job is one that is thankless and fraught with meddling parents who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

I have a habit of writing novels where a short story would work fine. I left a bunch of qualifiers out for the sake of brevity. Anyway, qualifiers to my post. The east side of King county (few miles east of Seattle) focuses very heavily on STEM. This region exists because of it. Before Microsoft set up shop we were a little bit of farm land, mining, minor commercial/retail businesses. Since the mid 1980's though when MS started gaining traction this area has boomed. We're now a major tech hub all built on STEM. Most families around here are supported by STEM. Even the non-stem people recognize the value of STEM around here. Because of this STEM is pushed by the entire local society; including the school system. It's easy to understand why it's pushed so hard around here. I've seen the same mindset in other places I've lived but with the focus in other areas. North Idaho pushed getting into the lumber or mining industry when I was in Highschool. Walla Walla had the idea that you either become a professional doctor, lawyer or take over the family farm. My elementary school years in Utah all I remember hearing about was start your own small business and grow it into a major enterprise.

If you get outside the Seattle-east King County area this mindset goes away. Although people in say Tacoma or Everett recognize STEM as a viable path those areas are also way more open minded to other ways of "winning" at life.

[Blingy]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All Americans live under the educational system organized and managed by the republican party, democrats have done nothing but lose in that arena for 40 years.

The american education system has been under attack by republicans since Nixon.

Because the NEA and education system as a whole has been on the offensive since then. If the education system will put down the grenades society will put down their pitchforks.

[Spergand]

Yes we just shouldve had blue handle it instead of red. That wouldve fixed everything.......

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by Blingy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because the NEA and education system as a whole has been on the offensive since then. If the education system will put down the grenades society will put down their pitchforks.

This is a biblical argument, to lay down your sword and the beast will cease eating you.

It is by no means scientific and school should be simple and scientific, church should be where you get prophetical about this type of cultural morality stuff.

Ya'll want to get rid of math and history because with it the damn creationist amusement park suffers.

Edit:

I want o be clear, I am by no means arguing Blue vs Red, I'm talking about the republican party between Nixon-Reagan erra, a major party platform and cultural trend among Americans was to defend education.

I will to this day never understand the argument, because it was this: teachers shouldn't be parents parents should

well that's great, but that doesn't mean I think orphans should just be wandering the streets like feral children.

Everyone here is old enough to remember it, I cant imagine that I'm talking to strangers here that cant all 100% agree that the, "it's cool to get bad grades" is right around the EQ generation.

Now that generation are the adults. Listen to them, everyone on the news, politicians, everyone I know, its like the kids under the bleachers in 1990 are all running the show.

I am not interested in the red vs blue fight. That fight has gotten even more crazy than this fight was. Im just talking about what I think we did to education.

[Kief]

You guys are arguing about pointless semantics at this point. Unless you get down to the reality of it all you can argue forever.

"The science of steering has the formal name of “cybernetics’ but we prefer to describe what we do as applying the science of context."
-American Society for Cybernetics

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by Kief [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unless you get down to the reality of it all you can argue forever.

good times make bad times
bad times make good times

It's about as simple as that! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Mota]

10 year olds in China learn Algebra. "Advanced" US kids don't even start that until 12 or 13. a 17/18 year old US high school grad has about the same math skill as a 14 year old Chinese kid.

Is teacher pay an issue? For the teachers, yes. For the quality of education the kids receive, it's largely a red herring. US education is in the crapper for first world nations, and not because we don't throw enough money at it.

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by Mota [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

10 year olds in China learn Algebra. "Advanced" US kids don't even start that until 12 or 13. a 17/18 year old US high school grad has about the same math skill as a 14 year old Chinese kid.

Is teacher pay an issue? For the teachers, yes. For the quality of education the kids receive, it's largely a red herring. US education is in the crapper for first world nations, and not because we don't throw enough money at it.

I'm arguing it's because we did not throw enough money at it, when we had the chance, before all the good educators left and the system became a total dumpster fire.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm arguing it's because we did not throw enough money at it, when we had the chance, before all the good educators left and the system became a total dumpster fire.

It's a general comment, not directed at you. But again the point isn't throwing money at the right time or place. A major issue is our system is slow. It treats kids like morons who can't learn, and is compounded by the silly anti-math, anti-intellect stances large swaths of the US seem to posses.

Maybe if we shoveled money at the right time somebody would have said something about the pace of education. I dunno. But it's clear our current system lags beyond what children are capable of. If China did it with less money and more kids "the greatest country in the world" should be able to figure it out.

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by Mota [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's a general comment, not directed at you. But again the point isn't throwing money at the right time or place. A major issue is our system is slow. It treats kids like morons who can't learn, and is compounded by the silly anti-math, anti-intellect stances large swaths of the US seem to posses.

Maybe if we shoveled money at the right time somebody would have said something about the pace of education. I dunno. But it's clear our current system lags beyond what children are capable of. If China did it with less money and more kids "the greatest country in the world" should be able to figure it out.

Ok but hear me tout.

Throwing money at problem, does solve it. It's how we built rockets that took us to the moon, or bridges that connect trade between nations.

And I think it's important to clarify that china has thrown huge amounts of money at education, it spends 50% more per student at an elementary school level than the US does and while america spends somehere around 12k per student at a college level the Chinese goverment spends around 40-50k USD per year, so I would argue china does throw money at its problems, including education, and so china did do it, with money!

None of what mankind has achived is done without capital, from the pyramids to the rockets that will take us to mars, and if the education system had capital, all the problems you speak of can be solved, like they were in china, which has virtually no education system to speak of when the EQ generation's parents were in school.

Edit: was gonna fix tout auto correct but it is a good pun cus I am trying to sell this idea hehe