Future MMORPGs: Do we really need a Monk class?

[JurisDictum]

Monks are based on the Shaolin warrior monks of China...Also known as Shaolin warriors. Due to various Confucian and Buddhist ideals, they learned to fight with blunt weapons and fists instead of swords and pikes. Likewise, armor and shields never caught on in a land with few pikes or swords.

But they were basically just fighters like any other warrior in any other region. They just had a unique culture that emphasized the blunt/bare weapon loophole. If you beat someone to death with a stick -- its OK because a stick clearly wasn't intended to kill them...yea it was a pretty dumb argument-- but it was the middle ages when this got started.

Basically from a lore perspective -- unless we are going to add a dozen specific Asian classes -- it would make more sense just to let warriors be Asian and use Asian weapons. They do this in most games even EQ -- Katanas etc. Just add in bow staffs and katas or whatever.

Fists don't make sense evidenced by the monks getting their ass kicked by real armies when they tried that shit (Mongols). It only worked during assassination operations. Which leads me to the fundamental problem with Monks as a concept:

Their warrior/rogue hybrids. These two classes combined are hard to balance. They tend to be overpowered tanky-ass rogues like classic EQ. They may also be rogue clones that basically amounts to Asian-inspired rogues. Perhaps they could be warrior-clones -- kind of like warriors only Asian....

They don't really have a place from a game play perspective. Vanguards idea of 4 different humans based on African, Asian, Northern and Middle-Eastern -- was a good idea. That way if you really want to be something like a monk lore wise -- just be an Asian rogue or warrior.

We don't need these kinds of ethnically-specific classes these days.

[Doctor Jeff]

what the fuck. monks aren't asian you racist

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what the fuck. monks aren't asian you racist

They don't base MMORPG monks on Trappist monks in fucking Belgium, do they? Although that's not a bad idea in game with crafting classes:

Spencer-Trappist-Ale-in-Glass.jpg

[AzzarTheGod]

When WoW added monks, I was intrigued.

I don't really know much about them over there, as far as what they do. I imagine its not very special.

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by AzzarTheGod [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When WoW added monks, I was intrigued.

I don't really know much about them over there, as far as what they do. I imagine its not very special.

In WoW it works like this: pick a class that has some unique-looking abilities -- then pick a specialization that will make you a equally balanced healer, tank, or DPS. Some are more powerful temporarily here and there -- but it tends to even out and not be that big of deal.

You basically play a homogenized tank, healer, ranged DPS or melee DPS.

Those four roles are the only real classes. The rest is aesthetic. Class homogenization sucks. Classes should be balanced to content -- like in EQ -- not balanced against each other.

[Sage Truthbearer]

I like having staff-wielding light melee classes in MMOs. They don't have to be Shaolin inspired, for example the Friar class in DAoC is more of a Benedictine monk .

[AzzarTheGod]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In WoW it works like this: pick a class that has some unique-looking abilities -- then pick a specialization that will make you a equally balanced healer, tank, or DPS. Some are more powerful temporarily here and there -- but it tends to even out and not be that big of deal.

You basically play a homogenized tank, healer, ranged DPS or melee DPS.

Those four roles are the only real classes. The rest is aesthetic. Class homogenization sucks. Classes should be balanced to content -- like in EQ -- not balanced against each other.

Sounds like a sub-game, the Arena, is dictating design now 100% and that everything revolves around small group balance in PvP and not the old Battleground balance they used during WOTLK.

Battleground balance and mass pvp balance allowed them to avoid homogenization. The Arena seems to have taken over primary balancing directive.

I remember Blizzard devs posting they use large-scale PvP to determine class balance, not group PvP. I guess thats over with. Unless they truly felt that people were upset over X Y Z class not being the BEST at a certain role. I do remember Paladin's and Warriors bitching at each other regularly, also people were violently upset at druid tanks for a long time because it was easymode faceroll without any gear.

[maskedmelonpai]

i agree with OP, fists almost as ineffective as prayers in real combat...

i feel super triggered, so gonna applaud OP and think bout maybe posting more on this later (-.-; )

[Pokesan]

those goddamn racist video games

[entruil]

I remember watching a discovery? channel documentary years ago about people who studied martial arts in a "monk" fashion... they trained with a pretty sizable stone on a pedestal beside the great wall of china by hitting it repeatedly with the back of their hand ... does that coincide with topic? are only shaolin monks really considered monks?

gave up trying to find show clips... was a discovery channel show where martial artists (mostly newts(a newt is a lizard with no balls)) traveled to seek training from profound,remote,etc... masters around the world.