Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[Lhord99]

In before your vs, you’re!

Shit, didn’t even make it past page one.

Your move, satan.

[zodium]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They nerfed bard AE because it was disrupting zones, not because it was a broken mechanic. Enchanters don't disrupt any zones.

Also you need to go out more.

tbf enchanters constantly steal mobs from other camps, including nameds

[Man0warr]

I killed Nagafen in Classic in a raid. We used nearly 100 people from levels 40-50, with rotating buff groups and after buffing up you would log out to the chat rooms to hang out. This process took over an hour which is why people logged out to save buffs.

People had terrible knowledge of gear (no one was wearing full MR resists) and most were just bad players compared to the average player on Project 1999.

It was basically a zerg, with everyone constantly getting feared and dying to Lava Breath. The only way we were successful was the sheer number of players.

Throw in most of these people were on 56k modems or ISDN lines (DSL wasn't widely available yet) and you had constant LDs with this amount of people.

[Buellen]

@Bazia

OK sure it was post when luclin release But the information is still relevant. Could there have been some change with patches from velious to luclin that possibly changed East karna Sure.

But the tactics although not refined as many of p1999 player base uses, still shows information that is relevant to the discussion in this thread.

With Respect

[Bazia]

ive kinda transcended the classic or not argument, one class should not be more powerful than an entire group that doesnt include said class

it's just stupid and considering ENC was designed to be a support class but it's functioning as anything but

everyone in a group with an ENC supports the ENC while they carry with charm DPS not the other way around as intended

[Cen]

Originally Posted by bubur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i also recall a lot of people charming mobs into buggy hilarity and using them to set loose the havoc of PoD on guards due to faction mattering for charmed pets or something. i guess thats kind of unrelated, but yeah, charming was .. different, if nothing else

it wasn't as widespread, but bards and necros could also fear kite things into corners and free xp. that must have been efficient, but no one told me bout it. it did happen though, even if a lot of us don't remember it.. charm may have been similar, may not. dont know for sure, needs citation

Here is the low down, because I used this bug on Rallos Zek to do bad things.

In classic, Charm had an interesting operation, in that any NPC you conned a certain faction to would con this way to your pet. This meant an aimable guard would now treat your pet as an amiable ally. Guards will assist the aggroed pet when you send him at Priest of Discord, and they don't assist Priest of Discord. Now on Rallos Zek, this extended to players. Not everyone learned of this bug, but you could send a guard from miles and miles away at any player you were in PvP range with, so id take a rat and bring him to guard, send him at an enemy player I could see very far away, and they'd haul ass over there to kill the player, who would be utterly confused.

[One Tin Soldier]

Not that my 2 cents really matters but since this thread is mostly just based on anecdotal evidence I'll toss mine in anyway. I started in late 1999 and played past velious. I know with certainty that enchanters did not use charm very much at all back then.

As to why they didn't I can't say for certain. I suppose it could have been, as some in this thread have theorized, that the average intelligence of the human race was lower in those years. Or it could be, as those of the opposing viewpoint have suggested, that charm simply didn't work as well back then, however preposterous that might sound. I couldn't prove anything either way.

One other thing I'll add because someone mentioned it early in this discussion was that the lull/calm line of spells also didn't work very well in old EQ. Again I can only offer my anecdotal evidence but I am absolutely certain that this is true. My main up through velious was a paladin so I had those spells. I know that they were so unreliable that I wouldn't even try using them on a group with more than three mobs. Usually I would only try it if there were only two mobs near each other.

Calm got resisted a lot and when mobs resisted they would agro so it wasn't safe to even try using it on a large group. I never actually kept track but it seemed to me that it got resisted at least 50% of the time (no proof though). It was so unreliable that I usually wouldn't even keep it memorized even if I was pulling.

Some time later on they did change something that made that line of spells work much better but that was after I had retired my paladin which was after Luclin came out. I don't remember exactly when it changed but I know it was at least after Luclin. I also don't know what they changed that made those spells work better. It might have been a change directly on those spells or it might have had something to do with MR of mobs in general.

Oh, and while were talking about classic/not classic stuff. The way mobs flee is not classic on P99. Back in the day when a mob was fleeing it would run in a straight line forever. That is why it was possible to fear things into walls and then just stand behind them beating on them. It doesn't work that way on p99.

[Buellen]

Some more charm information

1999 post everlore. Beguile spell discussion last post

https://web.archive.org/web/20010714...Whispers&type=


In groups have your tanks between you and the pet so they can attempt
to intercept and taunt when it breaks. It may take several rounds for
them to get the former pet off you, but at least they should be able to
taunt the non-charmed one away.

Really talented enchanters can even solo mobs of three or more by
charming and using the pet to attack one mob while they themselves
root and nuke the third (or even entrance a fourth). This is a little
like juggling knives - very impressive if done well, but very bloody
unless everything goes just right [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Requires a very cool head and
fast and correct casting to keep all four knives in the air (or mobs off
of you as the cast may be).

All in all, a very fun and useful spell that is dangerous if
you don't know what you're doing.


other post in this spell discuss how short this spell last even with high cha 182 <shrug> dont know what to say .

[Buellen]

This discussion of the enchanter spell allure has more concrete duration of various level of charisma.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010714...e=Allure&type=

I have had differing amounts of success with this
spell. On mobs 30ish and below and 220 charisma and
tash first I can have this reliably stick for up to
four or five minutes. On mobs 40ish to low 40s it's
much more of a crapshoot.

Still, Allure is the only spell I know that has a chance
to stop a fire giant or ice giant in its tracks. In
situations where mez doesn't work at all, this is
the crowd control tool of choice.

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Buellen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In groups have your tanks between you and the pet so they can attempt
to intercept and taunt when it breaks.

This is so cute but it gives a decent idea of the state of the EQ knowledge back then.

Also keep in mind that the enchanters (just like any int caster) back then went for INT, not CHA.