Game Mechanics: Kazon Stormhammer giving insufficient faction hits

[Heebee]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://web.archive.org/web/200112222...actions&Id=137

Where's Kazon Stormhammer on this list?

The absence of Kazon Stormhammer from this list only shows that this list is inaccurate/incomplete.

[Lazortag]

Yeah sorry, I just realized it was from December 2001 and you guys have evidence from November showing that he gave massive RoS faction hits. My offer of Nalkin's bard is still on the table though.

[Uthgaard]

Originally Posted by Mouse [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If Uthgaard is ever involved with a petition or any dispute you might as well just give up and save your breath. Dealing with that dude is like smashing your face against a brick wall.

Being right all the time isn't that hard. The part most people fail is keeping your mouth shut when you're wrong.

Originally Posted by Heebee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The absence of Kazon Stormhammer from this list only shows that this list is inaccurate/incomplete.

Documentation of killing him or a faction hit is missing from everything until 10 days before luclin. Not just one site, or one list. All of the devs on P99 have dealt with a lot of research on eq, a large portion of it is inconclusive to some degree. But, no matter what the question was, everything that ever happened in eq is documented to some extent somewhere, without exception.

[Uthgaard]

How you feel about me is not only less relevant to the topic than Heebee's retroactively edited post on which era that he supposedly killed Kazon in, all you're doing is emphasizing that the best argument you can come up with to support you is how much you wish you could lash out at Uthgaard, because all of the evidence that has been collectively posted here defies what you want.

Evidence > your tear-stained cheeks.

[guineapig]

Argue with each other via private message or R&F if you have to.
The bug forum is not the place for this.

[Glitch]

Well, I think arguing about obscure game mechanics can be productive if it works towards a final decision. Keep trying to prove eachother wrong with more evidence imo.

[guineapig]

Absolutely post comments that include evidence!

The posts I deleted had nothing to do with the bug, just people flaming each other.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How you feel about me is not only less relevant to the topic than Heebee's retroactively edited post on which era that he supposedly killed Kazon in, all you're doing is emphasizing that the best argument you can come up with to support you is how much you wish you could lash out at Uthgaard, because all of the evidence that has been collectively posted here defies what you want.

Evidence > your tear-stained cheeks.

Hey no one posted evidence from any webpages showing that you gave rogue epic items to a player that aren't in game yet but we all know it's true. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I think the links and screenshots we've posted make for a very simple and linear conclusion; Kazon is currently in the VP revamp form and should have his faction modifiers increased accordingly. No one has posted any information refuting this nor have they posted any information showing that he for sure had a 0 or small (~25) RoS modifier during Kunark.

Like I've said a bunch of times Uth this isn't about you so go away.

[Shiftin]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, you've already posted that. So far your counter to my evidence has been repeatedly posting your initial evidence from long after velious and talking about how much you don't like the big mean Uthgaard. Anything else?

Not that he's shown himself to have the reading comprehension skills god gave a gopher, but I believe Cyrano said it already. What was it. Game, set, match?

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Being right all the time isn't that hard. The part most people fail is keeping your mouth shut when you're wrong.

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How you feel about me is not only less relevant to the topic than Heebee's retroactively edited post on which era that he supposedly killed Kazon in, all you're doing is emphasizing that the best argument you can come up with to support you is how much you wish you could lash out at Uthgaard, because all of the evidence that has been collectively posted here defies what you want.

Evidence > your tear-stained cheeks.

Hey, you missed a few things when you were cleaning up, like, everything Uthgaard posted where he attacks us and pretends the exact same things the server was built on don't count as evidence anymore.

This is the same guy who has trolled my bug reports from 3 day trak to backstab parses, claiming my evidence isn't real when changes get made on FAR less than I provide when I put in a bug report.

Let's quit pretending he's doing anything even remotely related to providing evidence here. He provided links to places where there isn't evidence for or against the bug report as if, like Cyrano said, absence of evidence is evidence of absence. That's not how real life works. There are 3 of us who have first hand experience during this server's timeline doing faction this way and multiple outside sources corroborating that at least by the time velious was around, this method existed.

I already explained the difference between the logic of what Uthgaard posted (the possibility that it was added during velious despite not having ANY documentation to support that) and the bug report to show how far fetched it is, right here:

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a key point. Proof "in absentia" of something not existing is not proof of anything other than people not posting it in a place you can find it now 11 years later.

There are two scenarios here:
Scenario 1:
The faction hits were always this way, they just weren't used or well known until 2001 when VP was being regularly farmed on all servers. There's no real reason to kill city leaders other than for fun as they dropped nothing and tend to screw your faction for no real reason, so him having huge faction hits that were unknown to most people, especially the type of person who freely shared information on sites like everlore is perfectly reasonable.

Supporting this is that you have 2 people in this thread alone who used Kazon to fix VP faction in late kunark / early velious era, as well as plenty of evidence that by luclin, this is clearly how it worked.

Scenario 2:
Kazon was significantly harder and gave no faction hits until just before luclin. Everyone here saying we farmed him for faction is lying. He was changed to give large faction hits despite no quests being introduced that involved him or required RoS faction. He was made EASIER to kill despite still having no drops or reason to kill him. Your evidence for this change you aren't arguing actually happened, you just think theoretically happened, is that there isn't detailed information about a mob no one had a reason to kill on sites which are missing massive amounts of information about tons of things in the world anyway.

If you're going to edit out replies to him, edit out his bullshit too, because he's straight trolling.

[LevinJ]

Guineapig, if you are removing all posts that include flaming and troll baiting then why didn't you remove Uthgaard's posts - particularly the ones that contained nothing but personal attacks?