Faction - Illusion Question

[Teneran]

I killed a few guards in Nektulos on the bridge today and noticed something. I went in with DE illusion up and initially conned indifferent to the guards/corporals, even though I am a HE (agnostic) and max KOS with IndigoBrotherhood; exactly as I expected.

I killed two guards and when I conned the remaining Corporal on the South side of the bridge, I noticed he now conned apprehensive. This surprised me, I did take hits to DreadguardInner and DreadguardOuter (and IB but already max KOS) but I thought with DE illusion I would always con indifferent. Can I make myself KOS in Neriak even with a DE illusion by killing guards in Nektulos? I thought not but now I'm thinking yes.

[ko37qtl]

Yes, you can mess up your faction even with illusions. Think of them as just a change of race. Everything you have done still counts but is now viewed through the lens of that different race. A prime example of this is using the iksar illusion. They are all worshipers of Cazic-Thule, so an agnostic iksar or one with a different religion is still anathema to them and requires faction work to be accepted.

The short of it is, if you want to be accepted in Neriak, don't kill the guards. The illusion will only give you as much protection as a turncoat dark elf would receive.

[Mentathiel]

On the other hand, the illusion was enough (on a rogue) that even after being told that my faction with Indigo Brotherhood could not get any worse, I was only at apprehensive. The best way to salvage your faction is probably the Bottle of Red Wine hand-in at Neriak Third Gate.

[Kreylyn]

I've read before that illusions have a faction adjustment associated with them.

As an example, DE illusion may give you (making this number up) +2k in faction to Dark Elf factions. This in turn is adjusted to your base faction.

Most races do not start out Max KOS to other races, there is still room for some adjustment. Fortunately there is a maximum faction either good or bad. I believe as has been stated, the max KOS faction + most illusion adjustments = still not KOS.

This of course will depend on the amount of faction the illusion gives for the specific setting. I don't believe all illusions use the same adjustment amount.

Krey

[Teneran]

Very interesting. I may kill guards some the next few levels and I'm sure if i do I'll very quickly go max KOS with Dreadguard neriak factions. Then I can see if i stay apprehensive or if it gets worse.

Perhaps I'll go buy my remaining enchant metal spells first though. :-)

[Vermicelli]

Going under the guise of illusion ONLY affects your racial faction modifier. Any faction gains or losses due to killing mobs or guards or completing quests are absolutely not affected by taking on an illusion. Your toon's religion and faction work will still take effect when being considered by a mob's faction table.

The following table is representative of how an evil-aligned, likely non-INT or -WIS-caster mob sees player characters. Unfortunately, I don't know what the mob is exactly, but the changes described indicate that it is likely a merchant and likely operates in the shadier parts of Norrath. It takes negatives from all light-aligned races and deities, though cares nothing about the player character's class. Elemental and werewolf illusion typically get negs from merchants, though specific merchants such as the brownies in Lesser Faydark respond well to wolf-form. Halas barbarians take negs from wolf-form.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...040#post256040

So, obviously faction is complicated! I myself, as a creature of the Underfoot, have chosen to follow Brell Serilis. I was not welcome in the evil outpost in the Overthere, even when I use dark elf illusion and Collaboration, without having taken any hits to my Venril Sathir faction. I didn't figure worshiping Brell would be such a faction buster, but oh well. The residents in the goodguy outpost in Firiona Vie are merely dubious to my presence when I appear as an Iksar, so as long as I stay away from the Barb shammies there, I can look mean on the sweet streets. Feels good to be good =)

For what it is worth, you will never need to be welcome in Neriak as an enchanter of any race. The only business you have there is to buy your precious metal enchanting spells and turning in the quest for L44 Tash, both of which are handled by a guy on Beta Neutral faction. You will need to kill Verina Tomb in the Neriak Cleric guild for your epic, but since you need to kill her anyway, don't expect to have many friends in N-town. This is why the good mystics gave us Invisibility!

[Vermicelli]

I would like to point out that speculating quantities for explaining hypothetical faction adjustment is very counterproductive to formulating actual useful faction adjustment in-game, considering that an individual's faction adjustment is derived from the combination of mob killing/quest completion, religion, race, and class (and Alliance spell-line, if you are an enchanter). There are very definite numbers in the system attached to your presence that tell each individual mob's artificial intelligence how to perceive you. The value of this total (the way the mob interacts with you) is unique to each mob, and it is determined by your race, religion, class, and faction work.

There was a Project 1999 forum post a couple years ago that specifically described faction tiers that explained exactly what number value defines "Dubious," what number begins "Indifferent," what number begins "Amiably," and what number begins "Warmly," and so such that I wish I could find, but I have yet to be able to locate in searching. For instance though, if a mob perceives you with the lowest negative value (cannot possibly get any worse), you will be hardcore kill-on-sight "scowling" to them. There is a specific number at which you become merely "threateningly" to them, and so may be attacked in engage-proximity, but you may be ignored. There is a certain number that allows you to be "dubious," following that a specific value for "apprehensive," following that "indifferent," and I think you get it. There are definite numbers that define this sort of thing.

Everquest Live servers are reporting numerical values for faction adjustments per kill or quest completion these days. For instance, a poacher mob killed in Surefall Glade while someone was testing in a different thread:

Originally Posted by Buellen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is the results of my testing in surefall glade finally got a poacher to spawn. Hailed him

a poacher says " Hello, adventurer. I hope the land of Norrath has been kind to you. I myself have made a kiling. Hunting is surely a sport for the rich. And if you are not rich at its start, you soon shall be, from the profit made of hides."

Killed him and here are the faction adjustments.

Circle Of Unseen Hands has been adjusted by -5
Merchants of Qeynos has been adjusted by 1
Corrupt Qeynos Guards has been adjusted by -1
Gaurds of Qeynos has been adjusted by 1
Kane Bayle has been adjusted by -1

For what it is worth, the developers for P99 are currently accepting faction hits cited from EQ live currently for our server's classic content, regarding faction adjustments derived from mob kills or quest completion.

[Mentathiel]

Originally Posted by Vermicelli [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There was a Project 1999 forum post a couple years ago that specifically described faction tiers that explained exactly what number value defines "Dubious," what number begins "Indifferent," what number begins "Amiably," and what number begins "Warmly," and so such that I wish I could find, but I have yet to be able to locate in searching.

The wiki has a page about this; http://wiki.project1999.com/Faction

The numbers are not confirmed, since the players are not meant to have access to the P1999 database, but this seems to be the working theory...