Warriors are useless in 90% of the games content

[wuanahto]

5% of the server causes 95% of the problems
so what does that make warriors? make defensive stance cause -50% agro and 90% of server problems go away

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by wuanahto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

5% of the server causes 95% of the problems
so what does that make warriors? make defensive stance cause -50% agro and 90% of server problems go away

If you don’t raid you are unaware of all the “server problems”. Just don’t raid. Most people shouldn’t anyways.

[bobjonesp99]

Originally Posted by wuanahto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

5% of the server causes 95% of the problems
so what does that make warriors? make defensive stance cause -50% agro and 90% of server problems go away

what are you even going on about. defensive already does reduce threat btw.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by bobjonesp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what are you even going on about. defensive already does reduce threat btw.

I’m pretty sure it doesn’t. Melee threat per swing is a function of weapon ratio, haste, dmg bonus only. Any negative modifier on damage doesn’t apply to hate generation.

If I’m wrong, someone in “the know” please educate me.

[greatdane]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m pretty sure it doesn’t. Melee threat per swing is a function of weapon ratio, haste, dmg bonus only. Any negative modifier on damage doesn’t apply to hate generation.

If I’m wrong, someone in “the know” please educate me.

That's correct. When you swing a weapon, you generate an amount of aggro equal to weapon_dmg_stat + char_dmg_bonus. Doesn't matter how hard you hit, or even if you hit at all. A discipline that makes you do less damage (or more) per swing, or hit less (or more) often, does not affect how much aggro you generate. A swing is a swing, no matter if you miss, hit for low damage, hit for max damage, or crit. The only exception is crippling blows since they also stun, which generates additional aggro.

[bobjonesp99]

you are correct that misses still generate threat, but in my experience evasive and defensive still have a negative impact on threat generation.

[Snaggles]

If defensive discs reduced threat by 35% rogues would be the first to notice after being sent to their bind locations.

I’ve always known it to be what Troxx said. Basically every swing gives the aggro of its potential damage. Ratio, damage bonus, and haste plus good procs for the spell part of the puzzle.

[bobjonesp99]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If defensive discs reduced threat by 35% rogues would be the first to notice after being sent to their bind locations.

I’ve always known it to be what Troxx said. Basically every swing gives the aggro of its potential damage. Ratio, damage bonus, and haste plus good procs for the spell part of the puzzle.

rogues who go in immediately do often pull threat and get sent to their bind locations. usually all raid fights are started with defensive or evasive running already so its not something they would suddenly notice after it gets clicked. frequently tanks built threat on raid mobs using clickies like scepter or totem prior to engaging.


yes the formula for threat per swing that everyone quotes and assumes to be correct (including myself) looks good on paper and seems to be accurate, but nobody can seem to confirm via code that is how its implemented. just like the rumor that the damage bonus also applies to your offhand for threat calculations (which would mean nevs horn is the best offhand in the game for warrior threat). furthermore, nobody has ever shown me via code exactly how those disciplines effects are implemented, i.e. is the damage reduction applied to your weapons damage stat? or maybe the damage stat + weapon bonus? or maybe the damage calculated after a successful hit. even the wiki documentation of the effects of various disciplines have ?'s associated with the quantity of the effect.


so unless you have tested it using identical setups on 60 warriors to a high hp mob its just as much "gut" feeling as me telling you in my experience tanking it does seem to have an impact on threat generation. it is entirely possible it is not the case, but i have seen to many "unexplainable" flips of mobs on things that we "KNOW" shouldnt matter... like ive seen a melee using 2h primal pull agro from a tank using 2 high white damage threat ratio weapons (with agro procs) immediately after the melee procd avatar (which is assumed to be virtually no threat generation at all).

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by bobjonesp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you are correct that misses still generate threat, but in my experience evasive and defensive still have a negative impact on threat generation.

Evasive and defensive do not decrease threat production. It is how it has worked on live since 1999 and how it has worked on p99 since its inception.

[Vivitron]

I'm a little curious how different warriors feel in groups on the recentish aggro patch. Is it easier for warriors to hold aggro over slows at lower levels now?

but i have seen to many "unexplainable" flips of mobs on things that we "KNOW" shouldnt matter... like ive seen a melee using 2h primal pull agro from a tank using 2 high white damage threat ratio weapons (with agro procs) immediately after the melee procd avatar (which is assumed to be virtually no threat generation at all).

When there's a pet on the mob, a caster passing the tank's aggro from range without passing the pet's aggro can cause the mob to flip to other melees in range. It's not a common situation in raids -- maybe most plausible on Statue -- but I have definitely been in groups where my enchanter's slow aggro got a monk or rogue hit, and it looks like a tank vs dps aggro issue to anyone not watching for this bug.