there is a private list system going on at AC in OOT?

[Sabin76]

Well, that are actually two different things going on here:

The first is the vision for how extremely high-demand items (like RotA) should be "distributed" amongst the playerbase. The two extremes of this continuum being everyone on the server gets a chance to camp and get the item (with at least the caveat that you can actually KILL the mob), and let one person hold the camp and monopolize the item indefinitely. I don't think anyone really ascribes to either extreme, but it also doesn't seem like there is any consensus on where in this continuum the game should actually be.

The second is how to implement a system that achieves the above vision that can't be gamed (or, at least, makes it hard to... and circumventing it has a harsh enough punishment to deter said circumvention). But without a consensus on point one, talking about point two is meaningless.

At the same time, I don't think you can lump XP camps like Sisters in with loot camps like AC. You can literally get XP in a large number of places all over the world. Not all of them are ideal, but the option is certainly there. No drop items are a different animal as there is only one or two mobs in the game that drop them. There is no other option.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So the alternative is a week long waiting list just to get camps like OoT Sisters, AC, frenzied ghoul, etc?

Or Blue.

But also keep in mind that Verant knew AC (in particular) would be popular, and that's why OOT isn't the only AC: there are three other zones you can try and get him in ... it's just they require tracking and/or clearing placeholders and/or showing up at certain times: http://wiki.project1999.com/Ancient%20Cyclops

But ultimately when you have X people that want a thing, and that thing only appears once every Y times, someone is going to have to wait X * Y times to get that thing. That's unavoidable, unless you change the game (which defeats the point of Green).

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Sabin76 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, that are actually two different things going on here:

The first is the vision for how extremely high-demand items (like RotA) should be "distributed" amongst the playerbase. The two extremes of this continuum being everyone on the server gets a chance to camp and get the item (with at least the caveat that you can actually KILL the mob), and let one person hold the camp and monopolize the item indefinitely. I don't think anyone really ascribes to either extreme, but it also doesn't seem like there is any consensus on where in this continuum the game should actually be.

The second is how to implement a system that achieves the above vision that can't be gamed (or, at least, makes it hard to... and circumventing it has a harsh enough punishment to deter said circumvention). But without a consensus on point one, talking about point two is meaningless.

At the same time, I don't think you can lump XP camps like Sisters in with loot camps like AC. You can literally get XP in a large number of places all over the world. Not all of them are ideal, but the option is certainly there. No drop items are a different animal as there is only one or two mobs in the game that drop them. There is no other option.

There are other options though...you can buy pretty much all the items you can't camp (because you CAN farm pp...and the players farming the items are doing it to sell them to you). I've never understood the romance of camping items yourself. If I can make enough pp for an FBSS in EC tunnel faster than I can get the camp/item then I happily thank the farmers and save some time.

If the farmers weren't selling their hauls then you'd have another problem...but they are. Not every char is going to camp their own AC ring...not every char needs to camp their own fbss...or GEBs...the game was designed so that there is a market for this stuff.

The legit camping concerns are items that not sold (either because they are hoarding or the item isn't MQable/Droppable).

If you want to farm an FBSS you need to roll a solo class and go sit until you get the camp...and then when you get it you don't leave...ever. There are other routes (guild farming grps, etc.), but this is normal EQ. This is the EQ way.

You aren't going to get to farm your own FBSS if you can only play a couple hours at a time, aren't a solo class, and don't have friends helping you do it. This is the EQ way.

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or Blue.

But also keep in mind that Verant knew AC (in particular) would be popular, and that's why OOT isn't the only AC: there are three other zones you can try and get him in ... it's just they require tracking and/or clearing placeholders and/or showing up at certain times: http://wiki.project1999.com/Ancient%20Cyclops

But ultimately when you have X people that want a thing, and that thing only appears once every Y times, someone is going to have to wait X * Y times to get that thing. That's unavoidable, unless you change the game (which defeats the point of Green).

I'm a Blue boy (with a bit of Red alt), through and through. But the title of this thread made me genuinely concerned for the life expectancy of Green. The last thing Green needs is another TMO coming in and monopolizing the entire server by putting a steel padlock on all the high-end Raid and Epic content.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you want to farm an FBSS you need to roll a solo class and go sit until you get the camp...and then when you get it you don't leave...ever. There are other routes (guild farming grps, etc.), but this is normal EQ. This is the EQ way.

You aren't going to get to farm your own FBSS if you can only play a couple hours at a time, aren't a solo class, and don't have friends helping you do it. This is the EQ way.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm a Blue boy (with a bit of Red alt), through and through. But the title of this thread made me genuinely concerned for the life expectancy of Green. The last thing Green needs is another TMO coming in and monopolizing the entire server by putting a steel padlock on all the high-end Raid and Epic content.

This is why I dream of two servers: a "casual" server ("Teal") where raid content is rotated, as if this place was a museum and everyone should have a chance to see the exhibits ... and a "competition" server ("Green"), where people who want the classically competitive "uber guild monopolizes everything" experience can get it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But since I doubt I'll ever see those two servers ... another part of EQ is either joining your server's uber guild, or learning to live without the coolest raid toys (even things we think of as not being uberguild content on Blue ... like epics). This is the way.

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You aren't going to get to farm your own FBSS if you can only play a couple hours at a time, aren't a solo class, and don't have friends helping you do it. This is the EQ way.

So you're saying if you can't commit twelve hours a day without interruption to playing EQ, no meal breaks, no getting some fresh air, not even being able to use the restroom like a proper bloke, you'll never have access to the items or content you want? That's not how a game should be. A game should be an escape from the stresses of real life. One should not have to feel shackled to it to be able to enjoy it or progress in it.

[aaezil]

This thread is hilarious and classic p99 forums.

Everyone has their own pet idea about “how the list rules work” but all of you are wrong/half wrong

The gms just rule based on what they are seeing and how they feel that day thats how its always been here.

[Sabin76]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The legit camping concerns are items that not sold (either because they are hoarding or the item isn't MQable/Droppable).

Right, which the RotA is for INT casters. Not everyone wanting to camp AC for the ring wants the boots. On the other hand, there is ONE other option that I mentioned earlier, and that is buying loot rights from the camper... but that feels like list jumping for plat, and might even be considered cheating the system, so I don't know how people feel about that.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I see people talking past each other about solutions because they see different problems (or no problem at all). I just wanted to highlight that.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Sabin76 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

buying loot rights from the camper... but that feels like list jumping for plat, and might even be considered cheating the system, so I don't know how people feel about that.

Selling loot rights has been clearly established as acceptable here. There was even a time when a GM seemed to say it wasn't, and then corrected himself and clarified it was allowed.

The only time it's not is if a player agreement forbids it: you can't sell your winning roll for Shady Goblin, for instance.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread is hilarious and classic p99 forums.

Everyone has their own pet idea about “how the list rules work” but all of you are wrong/half wrong

The gms just rule based on what they are seeing and how they feel that day thats how its always been here.

I wouldn't say its that unpredictable in my experience. Its more like having a human referee in a sport...its easy to armchair the rules book and be a rules-lawyer, but somebody has to make an actual decision on the fly with information they have at that moment.

Certainly not perfect...but it seems to work.