Paladin: 95 CHA in seb as puller, no issue at 60

[greatdane]

On P99, for whatever reason, mobs become completely unable to resist if you're sufficiently higher level than them and they don't have higher MR than whatever is the default for trash mobs. It wasn't actually like that back in the day, or even to this day on live servers (including TLPs). It's a "feature" unique to P99, or at least to emulated servers. Basically a bug. Using a level 60 character at ABC, it wouldn't have mattered if you had 1 charisma when casting on the mobs that are below whatever the threshold is for a 0% resist chance. Charisma makes a pretty big difference when you aren't casting on mobs that are like 10-15 levels below you. Your assessment of charisma's effects on crit fails isn't really valid outside that particular context.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think most of the nonsense posted about CHA being the primary Paladin stat for awhile now has been driven primarily by hardcore types on their 10th alt who mostly soloed up their uber-geared Paladin twink in dungeons.

Divine Intervention would probably contribute to their argument for dumping starting points into CHA, though so far it seems DI is only being used on Warriors. Maybe at some point it will come into play for paladins.

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Imagine dungeon crawling solo as a Paladin and thinking, "My God, I've truly discovered something incredible here!", when it's actually the EQ equivalent of cutting up your steak with a fork.

Snicker bar with a fork and knife.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by greatdane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On P99, for whatever reason, mobs become completely unable to resist if you're sufficiently higher level than them and they don't have higher MR than whatever is the default for trash mobs. It wasn't actually like that back in the day, or even to this day on live servers (including TLPs). It's a "feature" unique to P99, or at least to emulated servers. Basically a bug. Using a level 60 character at ABC, it wouldn't have mattered if you had 1 charisma when casting on the mobs that are below whatever the threshold is for a 0% resist chance. Charisma makes a pretty big difference when you aren't casting on mobs that are like 10-15 levels below you. Your assessment of charisma's effects on crit fails isn't really valid outside that particular context.

The level gap between a level 60 and spawns in ABC is no different than a solo paladin though. In the early levels the PC vs NPC level gap is pretty close so Charisma is more noticeable but devoting starting points to help in Unrest is short-sighted. Soloing a melee at some point you are hunting for the easiest dark blues you can find.

This certainly isn’t trying to buck the trend for enchanters farming chardok who cap charisma. It’s also not saying a paladin’s proper lull kit isn’t occasionally useful. Just adding a counter point to so many theorycrafters on the forums saying dwarves are a dysfunctional pick or god-forbid that most new players should add CHA to elves and humans. Especially if one is more of a grouper since you have CC watching your back and the paladin is by far the most durable class that can lull.

[Toxigen]

Level > everything else...and you're doing ABC at 60. If you were 55 it would be an entirely different story.

Now go do King or Juggs with that group and report back on your lull success rate.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think most of the nonsense posted about CHA being the primary Paladin stat for awhile now has been driven primarily by hardcore types on their 10th alt who mostly soloed up their uber-geared Paladin twink in dungeons. As if this somehow represents the ideal or even normal playstyle of the class, which primarily excels as a GROUP TANK. Imagine dungeon crawling solo as a Paladin and thinking, "My God, I've truly discovered something incredible here!", when it's actually the EQ equivalent of cutting up your steak with a fork.

Thats a pretty sharp edge there, careful you don't cut yourself.

Those of us on alt 5, 6, 7, etc with raid gear aren't obligated to carry a full group of shitters that would rather watch netflix and play at 20% capacity...just because you say the class is a group tank.

I got far better xp solo in the highest ZEM dungeons and if I came across a competent player I'd duo it up for a nice change of pace.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Level > everything else...and you're doing ABC at 60. If you were 55 it would be an entirely different story.

Now go do King or Juggs with that group and report back on your lull success rate.

This.

ABC is child’s play. Wis/int/sta are easy to raise in velious. Paci classes should go CHA.

[Philistine]

Thanks for sharing Snaggles! I went STA on my baby Pal and after reading sooo many threads about CHA I'd genuinely wondered if I goofed.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Philistine [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for sharing Snaggles! I went STA on my baby Pal and after reading sooo many threads about CHA I'd genuinely wondered if I goofed.

You didnt

[Snaggles]

Most solo level 55's arent killing level 45-52's in seb. They are killing low 40's mobs in HK and what-not. So the lull difference is basically the same. Only like a level 30 hunting in the Unrest basement is a bit more dodgy...

A.) Where are you gonna run?
B.) That's a LOT of npcs not far from your level

My point wasnt that 95 CHA is all you need or that I would roll through jugs without issues. So whether I didnt make that clear or it's a Strawman (fun!), good point. Just that my literal experience at 60 in ABC killing blues was a snooze fest. I wish I was 55 because the enchanter would have had more to do.

In most groups a Pally with a few pieces of CHA gear can lull in a pinch. At level 55 they get divine aura on a 15 minute cooldown. Worst case you DA as the ench has a couple ticks by the time you are in camp to figure out what to do. Or people start rooting the melee ncs.

As I've said I literally carry all the CHA tryhard stuff. I can get to about 220 self-buffed and near cap with even Overwhelming Splendor. It's just an arthritic amount of clicking for very little benefit. Past about 150CHA unless you're an ench doing chardok things. In which case...cool. But that's not a pally discussion.

In the end if you have a pally or anyone who wants to pull, just let them. Try to not be a bad and it will work out.

Originally Posted by Philistine [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for sharing Snaggles! I went STA on my baby Pal and after reading sooo many threads about CHA I'd genuinely wondered if I goofed.

No problem! My Erudite put 20 points into STR and I barely cap with decent raid drops. I've also tanked quite a few tough targets. More than I thought I would (never thought I'd even raid again)

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This.

ABC is child’s play. Wis/int/sta are easy to raise in velious. Paci classes should go CHA.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Kobold_Jester%27s_Crown
https://wiki.project1999.com/Crude_Stein
https://wiki.project1999.com/Matchless_Dragonskin_Mask
https://wiki.project1999.com/Cat_Eye_Velium_Necklace
https://wiki.project1999.com/Seahorse_Spine_Bracelet
https://wiki.project1999.com/Froststone_Stein
https://wiki.project1999.com/Luminary_Two_Handed_Sword

That's +119 CHA from some very easily and cheaply acquired items, and doesn't even include rings or earrings, which could also add even more. There is zero universe in which STA or WIS are that trivial to raise and at such minimal expense.

As the OP's post illustrates, CHA is literally only good when you're using Lull in extremely risky circumstances, because on normal blue XP mobs 1) you will very rarely crit fail to begin with, and 2) when you do so, you can usually recover quite easily with your own toolkit and the presumed aid of your groupmates. Maxing CHA on a Paladin basically only makes sense if you're doing something unusual like leveling solo in particularly dangerous dungeons for the sheer thrill and challenge of it. But this is not how most people play the class, and at 60 a Paladin (who will presumably be running around doing group and raid content at that point) gains almost nothing from CHA.

And for the vanishingly small number of times you do need as much CHA as you can get for some absurdly dangerous pull? Carry a bag full of those items above, which by themselves will take even an ugly Dwarf to over 160 CHA.