FSI is overrated garb

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

979

Also they can walk out of VP, you can’t solo. Hope that helps.

Or you could just manage your characters better when raiding. Hope that helps.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or you could just manage your characters better when raiding. Hope that helps.

978, sorry you don’t got sneak

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When sneak pulling was still a thing, I agree Halfling Warriors had a pretty strong racial. Now that it was nerfed, there isn't much benefit to having sneak on a Warrior.

It's a lot deeper than that - although I do admit halflings have greatly diminished in power.

They really get a lot of routes to good equipment throughout the server (bull crusher is astounding on day 1, it's never hard to find dwarf cultural, etc), faction work isn't terribly easy but hide and sneak both help and have further uses pre infinite invis clicks, they are generally pretty well received by other players (people seem to be much kinder to halflings than other races - but iksars do tend to stick together and help each other a lot. They can be RZ which helps in Velious (iksar are stuck with CT). Sure these don't help so much at end game, but they make it easier and faster to get there.

Honestly, I think the fact that players are more amiable and accommodating to halfling avatars than ogres is a good enough reason halfling is better than ogre. Warriors need friends to accomplish their goals and endearing halflings are just better for that.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's a lot deeper than that - although I do admit halflings have greatly diminished in power.

They really get a lot of routes to good equipment throughout the server (bull crusher is astounding on day 1, it's never hard to find dwarf cultural, etc), faction work isn't terribly easy but hide and sneak both help and have further uses pre infinite invis clicks, they are generally pretty well received by other players (people seem to be much kinder to halflings than other races - but iksars do tend to stick together and help each other a lot. They can be RZ which helps in Velious (iksar are stuck with CT).

Honestly, I think the fact that players are more amiable and accommodating to halfling avatars than ogres is a good enough reason halfling is better than ogre. Warriors need friends to accomplish their goals and endearing halflings are just better for that.

Those are indeed good points. I am not trying to say people should only play Ogres/Trolls/Iksars because of their superior racials.

I just want people to know what the min/max options are from a statistical perspective, because some people care about that stuff. Ogre/Troll Warriors have the statistical advantage based on their racials. Ogres are generally better at 60, and Trolls are generally better when leveling. The choice mostly comes down to when you want your racial to be most effective: At the endgame, or during leveling.

If you want to make a character for reasons other than statistics, that is completely fine. Knowledge is power, and people should know what is better/worse. Then you can make your decision based on all the facts.

Rolling a halfling because you think it is better socially, or want to exclusively raid in VP are both valid reasons to roll a halfling. But that doesn't make them statistically superior generally speaking, they are just better for your specific case.

I am not sure why people get so offended at the statistics (not saying you are specifically). Luckily Everquest is a game where you can still do all the content a specific class could do with the statistically worst race choice.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Those are indeed good points. I am not trying to say people should only play Ogres/Trolls/Iksars because of their superior racials.

I just want people to know what the min/max options are from a statistical perspective, because some people care about that stuff. Ogre/Troll Warriors have the statistical advantage based on their racials. Ogres are generally better at 60, and Trolls are generally better when leveling. The choice mostly comes down to when you want your racial to be most effective: At the endgame, or during leveling.

If you want to make a character for reasons other than statistics, that is completely fine. Knowledge is power, and people should know what is better/worse. Then you can make your decision based on all the facts.

Rolling a halfling because you think it is better socially, or want to exclusively raid in VP are both valid reasons to roll a halfling. But that doesn't make them statistically superior generally speaking, they are just better for your specific case.

I am not sure why people get so offended at the statistics (not saying you are specifically). Luckily Everquest is a game where you can still do all the content a specific class could do with the statistically worst race choice.

977

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is no racial that is extremely effective in group/raid situations.

On the raid side, this is largely a current day P99-specific issue due to P99's modern culture of zerg raiding and trainout/lack of clear tactics. Hence it might be subject to eventual change if the ruleset is ever updated. Regeneration from any source (racial, worn, either nice and they stacked) was great on the feigner classes back in the original game or in years past on P99 when things like wipes happened and lengthy traditional corpse runs took place. In such conditions it was not unheard of to spend 10-20 min feigned in place slowly regenerating. This is the tank board so that applies to shadowknights.

On warriors my own favorite racial trait in large group (especially raid) scenarios is physical size: It's helpful for everyone to be able to pick their main tank who'll be controlling positioning/etc out from a crowd. That's hard to do if the tank is some stupid little dwarf or gnome. Ogres and trolls are good, barbarians okay, medium races ho-hum in that aspect, short races are annoying. The more people the more of an annoyance it becomes. That's the only trait anyone else is going to notice and even then they ultimately won't care THAT much.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On the raid side, this is largely a current day P99-specific issue due to P99's modern culture of zerg raiding and trainout/lack of clear tactics. Hence it might be subject to eventual change if the ruleset is ever updated.

I am always talking about what's currently good on P99 specifically, since that is what we are playing. Maybe that is where some of the confusion comes from. I am not trying to talk about what "should be", "could be", "it worked x way on live", etc.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Regeneration from any source (racial, worn, either nice and they stacked) was great on the feigner classes back in the original game or in years past on P99 when things like wipes happened and lengthy traditional corpse runs took place. In such conditions it was not unheard of to spend 10-20 min feigned in place slowly regenerating. This is the tank board so that applies to shadowknights.

Agreed, there are cases where regeneration can help recovering during feign death. But since raids are a race, normally you aren't waiting for a single puller to recover, you have backups, or even die and get a res because it's faster.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On warriors my own favorite racial trait in large group (especially raid) scenarios is physical size: It's helpful for everyone to be able to pick their main tank who'll be controlling positioning/etc out from a crowd. That's hard to do if the tank is some stupid little dwarf or gnome. Ogres and trolls are good, barbarians okay, medium races ho-hum in that aspect, short races are annoying. The more people the more of an annoyance it becomes. That's the only trait anyone else is going to notice and even then they ultimately won't care THAT much.

Agreed. It's better to be bigger by default in most normal situations, because then it is easier to climb some staircases (such as Kael), and you can shrink when you need to. Being small all the time is harder, because there aren't as many methods to scale back up. Ant Pots are quite easy to get for anyone when you need to be small.

For raiding there are only a few targets where size matters when getting resed (such as Zlandicar). Even then experienced guilds know how to get around that with the level geometry.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rolling a halfling because you think it is better socially, or want to exclusively raid in VP are both valid reasons to roll a halfling.

Completely disagree on the second point - if you want to raid VP it has to be Iksar - it fits the lore so thematically (and lets face it the advantages of halfling aren’t really even all that - as you point out earlier a stranded iksar in vp can be managed). It’s easier to keep motivation with a theme driving the character and people like to cheer on an iksar seeking vengeance against Ring of Scale (I still need my iksar to reclaim Rile’s sword at some point!).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Completely disagree on the second point - if you want to raid VP it has to be Iksar - it fits the lore so thematically (and lets face it the advantages of halfling aren’t really even all that - as you point out earlier a stranded iksar in vp can be managed). It’s easier to keep motivation with a theme driving the character and people like to cheer on an iksar seeking vengeance against Ring of Scale (I still need my iksar to reclaim Rile’s sword at some point!).

Lol everybody loves the underdog story!

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol everybody loves the underdog story!

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