P99 Sky Agreement - why its bad for the server

[Bummey]

man it must be unfortunate to not have access to certain mobs you need for your epic. boy, must be hard playing on this server and not being able to get something on your own. buy an epic mq? perish the thought

awakened and aftermath get really mad when they can't control something

[planarity]

Originally Posted by Bummey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

man it must be unfortunate to not have access to certain mobs you need for your epic. boy, must be hard playing on this server and not being able to get something on your own. buy an epic mq? perish the thought

awakened and aftermath get really mad when they can't control something

"getting a torpor or a necromancer epic is hard and it's shitty when guilds lock others out from these things, so sky should also be shitty and we should have the ability to lock people out from sky (with GM enforcement) out of spite" basically sums up this argument as well as similar arguments from loramin and others. There are some decent arguments for the sky rotation, but this isn't one of them.

What do I mean by "lock people out of sky"? Well what I mean is Bummey petitioning me and my friends for going up one day a couple weeks ago in <Clue>'s slot, when they had already decided not to go and in fact their sky raids had been "indefinitely suspended" for weeks already. For some reason the GMs went along with this and suspended our toons for a week. Here is some more info for the curious. (Of course after that debacle, <Clue> was basically forced to start going back up again and so they've started to do that.)

What do I mean "out of spite"? Well here are some quotes from a convo I had with Bummey after the fact:

"I would not have assented to your presence in Sky on our night, regardless of our attendance."
"People like you have been running roughshod over this server and the majority of its member base going on a decade now and it is not acceptable. [because I was in one of the top guilds once]"
"You know what you and your ilk[sic] do to this server and its players."

We didn't ask for <Clue>'s permission because who would have dreamed we needed it? I spoke to a friendly clue member. First I asked for an officer just because they generally have more idea what's going on, he told me there weren't any officers around but assured me that clue hadn't been doing sky lately at all and definitely wouldn't be going on that day. That was enough for me (and any reasonable person), and even the friendly clue member agreed:

"well.. srry bout what happened.. they made a big deal in gmotd that sky was put on hold for a while. .so figured it wasnt a big deal"
"aye.. dont see that u guys did anything wrong really.. ..but thats me.. ".

This concept of guilds having so much ownership of their sky slots that they can veto other people from killing the mobs when they won't be killing them themselves (and won't even be entering the zone at all) is totally new and obviously absurd. (Disagree? Name a precedent.) Instead, it should be the norm (if not a rule) that guilds who know they won't be using their slot for a given week should say so publicly so that others can go. If you want to improve the sky rotation, start there. It's worth talking about other ways that the sky rotation could be improved/updated, and maybe I'll give my 2 cents in another post later, but I wanted to clear up some misconceptions and call out some hypocrisy.

For the record, it isn't perfect but I have always been OK with the sky rotation (I used to lead the sky raids for <Rampage> and other guilds) and have always been happy to go along with it until a new scheme is put in place. This is true in spite of Loramin's literally dozens of assertions in the reddit thread like that we "decide[d] the rules don't apply to [us]" and so on. We haven't and wouldn't have gone during a slot that was going to be used, and I'll leave it to the readers of this thread to come to their own conclusions about whether that's respecting the current agreement or not. I know he will try this trick again so I wanted to inb4.

Also for the record, we weren't a "farm crew", just some people who needed sky drops for our characters with no intentions of selling anything, although I don't see anything wrong with selling some drops that you don't need (for those interested, Bummey is selling necro epic cloaks and has one for sale and "two in the wings").


Best,

Planarity/Unicity

[Bummey]

you sound mad

[Swish2]

Originally Posted by planarity [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What do I mean by "lock people out of sky"? Well what I mean is Bummey petitioning me and my friends for going up one day a couple weeks ago in <Clue>'s slot, when they had already decided not to go...

Sounds like he's not the only one [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[elwing]

Still wondering why this is not in RnF... I don't see anything constructive there, pure rant...

[planarity]

Originally Posted by elwing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Still wondering why this is not in RnF... I don't see anything constructive there, pure rant...

Well fair enough I guess, although the OP and others brought up the clue sky thing with me and people seemed to not really know what happened, so we may as well make it clear what happened and how silly it was if we're going to be talking about the sky rotation.

Also once Bvmmey stated weighing in, I thought we could all use some insight into why he shouldn't be taken too seriously.

There was a constructive bit in there that I admit wasn't so easy to find: Many guilds don't use their slot every week, and it would help a lot if they would post that fact somewhere in advance so others can use the slot that week. This is low-hanging fruit (oh also also obviously if a guild isn't going up, they should be able to veto anyone else from going up, but that's so obvious it should go without saying).

[Bummey]

We've spoken enough in the past for you to know I can be very diplomatic and well reasoned when the conversation warrants it. This, right now, doesn't. You think you're being devious with all this forumquesting, but there are plenty of people who know what Awakened's word is really worth and the real reason you're leading this crusade.

You are transparent.

[Holyhawk]

Ask an officer for permission to go up, instead of some random schmo in a guild full of random schmos just hours before you go up? This is not hard. Use common sense.

[planarity]

Originally Posted by Bummey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there are plenty of people who know what Awakened's word is really worth and the real reason you're leading this crusade.

You are transparent.

I was in awakened for like 3 or 4 months, and I'm not anymore. What's the crusade and why am I leading it? I wanted to get a haste cloak for my ranger, so crusade over. Now I'm just annoyed that petty people petition things out of spite, and that the GMs seem willing to go along with it for some reason.

[Canelek]

One would think that at this point, smaller groups of forumquesters, only striving to forumquest more good, would have more equally distributed forumquest equity.