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  #11  
Old 08-17-2024, 12:23 PM
Snaggles Snaggles is offline
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Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I find it annoying how that spell is more mana efficient than the Shaman 50% slow, Tagar's Insects, when Shaman are supposed to be the best at slowing.
On a list of complaints playing the shaman class mana efficiency for downranked slows isn’t one of them.
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  #12  
Old 08-17-2024, 01:22 PM
shovelquest shovelquest is offline
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Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Tepid Deeds should be used most of the time for general grouping. It casts much faster and is more mana efficient than your higher level slow spells. I find it annoying how that spell is more mana efficient than the Shaman 50% slow, Tagar's Insects, when Shaman are supposed to be the best at slowing.
To be fair, nothing makes an enchanter feel smaller than when the shaman AOE slows the bad pull.
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  #13  
Old 08-17-2024, 01:28 PM
fortior fortior is offline
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you mean after they mez it?
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  #14  
Old 09-26-2024, 09:35 PM
NopeNopeNopeNope NopeNopeNopeNope is offline
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I’d always use a downgraded rank of slow due to better mana efficiency, never even bought forlorn deeds by 59…
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  #15  
Old 09-28-2024, 07:42 PM
Goregasmic Goregasmic is offline
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Originally Posted by NopeNopeNopeNope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I’d always use a downgraded rank of slow due to better mana efficiency, never even bought forlorn deeds by 59…
Compared to shiftless, forlorn is +25mana for an extra 5% slow. The biggest question is do you want to spend 7kpp on that.

To answer OP; tepid deeps unless you're fighting nasty stuff, healer is struggling or your pet will not otherwise survive the fight. You'll get a feel for it.
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  #16  
Old 09-28-2024, 09:09 PM
Ruien Ruien is offline
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Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Compared to shiftless, forlorn is +25mana for an extra 5% slow. The biggest question is do you want to spend 7kpp on that.

To answer OP; tepid deeps unless you're fighting nasty stuff, healer is struggling or your pet will not otherwise survive the fight. You'll get a feel for it.
That extra 5% slow represents an additional 16.7% increase in effectiveness, for 25 mana, so yes- between Shiftless and Forlorn, you use Forlorn. But I only use it on named mobs, on raids, or when pet health is too low. Most of the time I am using Tepid Deeds instead.

When leveling (solo), the answer is different still - you choose your slow based on the situation, estimating the right slow to use such that both pet and mob end up almost dead when the fight is over.
Last edited by Ruien; 09-28-2024 at 09:15 PM..
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  #17  
Old 09-29-2024, 01:03 AM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Here's how I look at it from a Shaman's perspective while leveling (not killing named mobs). You can change the healing spell if you have a different healer (like a Cleric) instead of a Shaman as the main healer:

Shaman Level 29
===============

27% slow for 60 mana (Walking Sleep)
34% slow for 120 mana (Tagar's Insects)
300 HP for 150 mana (Greater Healing)

10 DPS mob 1 minute fight = 600 damage

600 x 0.73 = 438 damage

600 x 0.66 = 396 damage

42 HP for 60 Mana = 0.7 HP to Mana, which is less than 2.0 HP to Mana (Greater Healing)

Shaman Level 49
===============

32% slow for 60 mana (Walking Sleep)
59% slow for 175 mana (Togor's Insects)
300 HP for 150 mana (Greater Healing)

25 DPS mob 1 minute fight = 1500 damage

1500 x 0.68 = 1020 damage

1500 x 0.41 = 615 damage

405 HP for 115 Mana = 3.5 HP to Mana which is greater than 2.0 HP to Mana (Greater Healing)

These DPS and kill time examples are rough estimates, not guaranteed numbers for mobs in these level ranges. You'll need to figure out the average DPS and kill times of the mobs you are facing to get an accurate understanding of what is more efficient.

At level 29, you can see that casting your lower level slow and occasionally healing will be more mana efficient. At level 49, using your highest level slow will yield more HP to Mana than your best heal, making it more mana efficient.

If you have a Cleric as the main healer at level 49, the mana efficiency of their heal is at least 3.2 HP to Mana (Celestial Healing). It can be higher with Complete Heal, depending on the HP pool of the target being healed. This means using your low level slow to save mana is going to be fine, as using the higher level slow is basically the same HP to Mana ratio as your group's best heal. This assumes the Cleric isn't having mana problems. If they are, then you may need to use the better slow.

When fighting named mobs, you generally just want to use your best slow to ensure you get the kill.
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Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 09-29-2024 at 01:29 AM..
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  #18  
Old 09-29-2024, 10:46 AM
Goregasmic Goregasmic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
That extra 5% slow represents an additional 16.7% increase in effectiveness, for 25 mana, so yes- between Shiftless and Forlorn, you use Forlorn. But I only use it on named mobs, on raids, or when pet health is too low. Most of the time I am using Tepid Deeds instead.
Forlorn is clearly better but when you still dont have bedlam/dictate/vog I feel like for forlorn can wait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
When leveling (solo), the answer is different still - you choose your slow based on the situation, estimating the right slow to use such that both pet and mob end up almost dead when the fight is over.
For double charm kills tepid usually does it. The trick is timing it right. It is by far my most used slow but i still bust out shiftless (no forlorn yet) often in more niche situations that either warrants/permits it.
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  #19  
Old 10-04-2024, 02:39 PM
Troxx Troxx is offline
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Until I had torpor at 60 I only ever used Turgurs on long fights.

~95% of the time Tagars
~4% of the time Togors (heavy hitters)
~1% of the time Turgurs (heavy hitters with a longer expected fight time)

The mana savings very much add up over time.

After torpor, the only slow I use other than Turgurs is aoe slow situationally.

Extrapolated to enchanters, yeah I’d say use the lower level more efficient slow for most all content unless you absolutely need the higher level one.
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  #20  
Old 10-05-2024, 09:47 AM
Toxigen Toxigen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Until I had torpor at 60 I only ever used Turgurs on long fights.

~95% of the time Tagars
~4% of the time Togors (heavy hitters)
~1% of the time Turgurs (heavy hitters with a longer expected fight time)

The mana savings very much add up over time.

After torpor, the only slow I use other than Turgurs is aoe slow situationally.

Extrapolated to enchanters, yeah I’d say use the lower level more efficient slow for most all content unless you absolutely need the higher level one.
make sure to max rank slow your pets too while DSM multi dots
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