Soloing vs. grouping, once and for all

[Nedala]

NERF SOLO EXP IMO, so we see more grps again, pls.

It just sucks that solo exp is so much better.

Or boost grp-exp, whatever works.

I think grp vs. solo is waaayyyy to much difference atm [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[skorge]

Originally Posted by Noselacri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, to those of you who soloed extensively eleven years ago, was solo exp twice as good back then as well?

Yes, it was, unfortunately...and that is the sole purpose of "twinking" an alt. Because, everybody knows that soloing is much faster if you know what you are doing.

[Braveguard]

Originally Posted by skorge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, it was, unfortunately...and that is the sole purpose of "twinking" an alt. Because, everybody knows that soloing is much faster if you know what you are doing.

And there is a big part of the issue... twinking. If you are level 5 with level 40 gear, there is no point in grouping. You're taking nearly no damage and killing non-stop. Why would you bother with a group. Even with a minimal amount of twinking, if you know all the quirks and secrets of the game (as a larger percentage of players do), you can play the system to level faster as a solo than you can in a group.

I prefer having regular partners. I don't like random groups and soloing is boring. I only do it if Im trying to work up a skill or learn a trade or something that would be a drag for someone else to slog through with me. The game really is a lot more fun if you're with a bunch of buddies.

[Lagaidh]

I soloed a great deal in live just to see if I could. Paladins weren't seen as even capable of soloing and I liked to prove people wrong.

But it was SLOW.

I got to where I really enjoyed duoing with a RL buddy ranger. Here I'm duoing with my wife's druid. The xp seems fine enough to me. We don't have a lot of time to play and we're both L18. We started here in lateish August.

If we could find the right situation though... semi regular friends that understood our playtime is bound to RL constraints... that'd be just fine.

I guess the point is for us, at least one regular (each other) is preferable to soloing, but then... we aren't in a hurry to whizz through content we've been dying to relive as classic for at least 6 years.

[Messianic]

I personally think xp rates are identical, if not almost exactly the same, as they were on live during the comparable era. Why? I had plenty of RL friends who played a variety of classes - one Ogre SK, one Troll Shaman, one High Elf Magician, and myself, a human monk.

I saw the magician blow us all away in levels. He did play slightly more, but his xp gain and soloing ease made it a joke for him to pass us. The Shaman had a great deal of trouble until 24-34ish, when his speed started to ramp up. I leveled the slowest at first, being addicted to alts (as I am here), and played around a bit. However, once I pulled together enough cash from trading wisely and manufacturing items, I twinked the garbage out of my monk and burned through levels.

One concrete example is the Troll Shaman - he camped Osargen in HK from 24 to 27-29 (don't remember exactly). The exp he reported at the time in terms of bubbles and general exp rate was nearly identical to when my erudite wizard on this server camped him for a while (adjusting for exp penalties)

If there is some giant difference, i must be completely blind and can't see it.


My theory? Knowledge about how the first 2-3 years of everquest functioned, the classes who have solo advantages, the best places to solo, the best NPCs to camp, the best gear to use - the knowledge we have now about all of these things is immeasurably higher than what it was.


Most of the people who play this game have already done the group-route in 1999 or thereafter. We've grouped in lguk, and Sol B until we were blue in the face, so it's not a novelty to do what we did in 1999/2000. Quit complaining about group exp - you have to face the fact that unless you're in a group that knows what it's doing and you're in the right place in the right zone, solo exp is often faster than group exp.

If you genuinely play for a group experience instead of a solo grinding/Raiding experience, there's no reason to complain anyhow, and you need to take the bad with the good. Quit whining that other playstyles have an advantage. It shouldn't matter to you that some mage camping guards in HK levels faster than you - his leveling doesn't pick your pocket or break your leg.

Forcing people to group won't help either, nor would it be "classic." Sorry, you can't re-create a lack of knowledge that led people to group more often in classic without distorting exp mechanics and therefore making it less "classic."

[Mcbard]

Soloing was always much faster xp than group xp so long as you could minimize your downtime and kill times. It rocked being a necro.

[Raavak]

At the risk of deviating from classic increasing or retooling group exp may not be a bad idea.

[Pescador]

I'm fairly sure that the solo exp is cranked up beyond what it was in classic. I have no hard evidence to offer, but I'm sure many other people remember being thrilled if killing a blue mob solo even had a noticeable effect on your exp bar. Now, it seems like I can kill a blue mob in a hell level and still get 1/4 of a blue bar per kill.

Again, I have no evidence besides my memories, but I'm sure other people would agree that back in 1999/2000 you couldn't hop on your paladin and get a yellow after an hour or two of solo'ing.

Add to that the fact that mage pets still seem far stronger than they were originally, and you have people soloing their way to 50 in very little time. I know that 9 or 10 years ago my level 12 mage in wc would get absolutely crushed by kodiaks, but here I was able to kill deep red cons while only healing my pet a few times and tossing a level 1 nuke to get exp. Similarly, when I hit 16 I wouldn't dare attempt red con dw crocs in oasis because it simply wasn't worth the mana expenditure and the risk, while here I can solo them all day with almost zero risk because my pet can almost solo them himself.

Overall, though, I think the solo exp is quite a bit higher than it was on classic, because there was NO question that grouping was faster in 9 out of 10 cases, with certain kiting classes in certain zones being the exception rather than the rule.

I don't think people were ignorant 10 years ago; if the exp bar moved faster when solo'ing, everyone would have been solo'ing. It's not like we are so much wiser 10 years later that we have all suddenly realized that solo'ing was faster all along. There were min/maxers back in 1999, and it's silly to think that they just "assumed' grouping was faster.

People almost exclusively grouped in 1999 because it was faster than soloing. People are almost exclusively soloing here because it's faster than grouping. Something (and my guess is that solo exp is way too high) is different.

"Lack of knowledge" seems like a very thin excuse; don't you think the people playing 18 hours a day in 1999 would have figured out that grouping was crappy exp? It's not like you truly need years of experience to learn how to level fast in EQ. I don't really mind, since I'm able to solo my cleric, mage, pally, and bard and get at least a level every few hours, but I can very clearly remember that it was not this easy in classic.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Pescador [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have no hard evidence to offer, but I'm sure many other people remember being thrilled if killing a blue mob solo even had a noticeable effect on your exp bar. Now, it seems like I can kill a blue mob in a hell level and still get 1/4 of a blue bar per kill.

Killing blues on my wizard during a hell level had a barely noticeable effect on my exp bar.

Originally Posted by Pescador [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, I have no evidence besides my memories, but I'm sure other people would agree that back in 1999/2000 you couldn't hop on your paladin and get a yellow after an hour or two of solo'ing.

Against undead with a Ghoulbane between 20-40, sure you could. I did it on live on my Half-Elf Paladin.

I know that 9 or 10 years ago my level 12 mage in wc would get absolutely crushed by kodiaks, but here I was able to kill deep red cons while only healing my pet a few times and tossing a level 1 nuke to get exp. Similarly, when I hit 16 I wouldn't dare attempt red con dw crocs in oasis because it simply wasn't worth the mana expenditure and the risk, while here I can solo them all day with almost zero risk because my pet can almost solo them himself.

Mage pets are an entirely separate issue from how fast you can gain exp as a specific mechanic. You can make another thread if you want to debate that.

Overall, though, I think the solo exp is quite a bit higher than it was on classic, because there was NO question that grouping was faster in 9 out of 10 cases, with certain kiting classes in certain zones being the exception rather than the rule.

I soloed constantly. So did most of my friends. I knew it was faster. I essentially soloed my monk to 60.

"Lack of knowledge" seems like a very thin excuse; don't you think the people playing 18 hours a day in 1999 would have figured out that grouping was crappy exp? It's not like you truly need years of experience to learn how to level fast in EQ. I don't really mind, since I'm able to solo my cleric, mage, pally, and bard and get at least a level every few hours, but I can very clearly remember that it was not this easy in classic.

All of what the Min-Maxers did back then trickles down to everyone else over time. Nearly everyone here is a person who is devoted enough to the game to play it over 10 years after it was released, so you have a higher population of min-maxers here than on live, which is another point that supports the concept.

Bards actually leveled faster on live because you could nearly swarm kite entire zones - mobs ran slower than they do here. I have a friend who did it through PoP. But the EXP he got from his swarms seems to match what bards can do here.

The points stand - Knowledge is better now, non min-maxers have access to be min-maxers. More Min-maxers here than on live as a %. Additional - general change of gameplay style of MMOs from group/hard/unforgiving to solo/easy/expect casual epics.

[ShivanAngel]

Im thinking Kunark will do a lot to bring back grouping. There were certain camps that were nearly impossible to solo. liikkkeeee most of sebilis and karnors...

If I saw a mage rocking disco or drolvarg warlord solo id start to wonder, but, soloing certain camps in Lguk isnt especially challenging.

Another issues is the concrete camp rules on this server. There were no "camps" recognized by GM's in classic EQ. If you tried to say you were soloing frenzies room a group would move right in and take it over. You were forced to group in this regard.