most underpowered class in game?

[PlsNoBan]

I don't think the majority share the same lowly view of mages in group scenarios as you do. I also think you overestimate necro utility/dps in comparison. Necro will blow mage away if a good undead charm target is available BUT if there isn't an undead available mage damage is going to be consistently a good bit higher. Especially in a fast killing group where a necro's dots are practically 100% useless and is resorting to lifetaps for DPS. Necro utility is also situational whereas raw DPS is not. A solid group with a good enchanter and a cleric that isn't struggling for mana has very little use for necro utility.

It depends on where the group is and what classes it has but I'd say I'm probably taking mage over necro the majority of the time. Exceptions being undead heavy zones and if the group lacks CC. Even then it's a bit of a toss up cause like 90% of necros don't know how to play in a group and you don't get anywhere near the full potential benefit of having them around anyway.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol don't get me wrong, I think Mages are a fun class. They simply aren't as good as other classes. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't play them.

I think "best" is a great bar for class selection at a contested raid, but I think classes mostly thrive in the xp environment by being "not worse than good." And mages are good dps. I haven't seen groups I've been in passing them up for the role.

At raids mages are the "best" cothers, mod rod summoners, and invuln trainers; often making a few of them necessary. I think a lot of classes have a similar situation where a few of them are necessary but more are suboptimal; I know I frequently log a guild cleric or rogue instead of my enchanter in tov, for example.

[PatChapp]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think the majority share the same lowly view of mages in group scenarios as you do. I also think you overestimate necro utility/dps in comparison. Necro will blow mage away if a good undead charm target is available BUT if there isn't an undead available mage damage is going to be consistently a good bit higher. Especially in a fast killing group where a necro's dots are practically 100% useless and is resorting to lifetaps for DPS. Necro utility is also situational whereas raw DPS is not. A solid group with a good enchanter and a cleric that isn't struggling for mana has very little use for necro utility.

It depends on where the group is and what classes it has but I'd say I'm probably taking mage over necro the majority of the time. Exceptions being undead heavy zones and if the group lacks CC. Even then it's a bit of a toss up cause like 90% of necros don't know how to play in a group and you don't get anywhere near the full potential benefit of having them around anyway.

A good necro simply brings a lot more utility than a mage. A good necro will keep mana up for healers and enchanters,do half decent DPS with their pet. Their crowd control is very useful, necros are just a very well rounded class whereas mages can do very few things.

My first lvl 60 on p99 was a magician.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think the majority share the same lowly view of mages in group scenarios as you do. I also think you overestimate necro utility/dps in comparison. Necro will blow mage away if a good undead charm target is available BUT if there isn't an undead available mage damage is going to be consistently a good bit higher. Especially in a fast killing group where a necro's dots are practically 100% useless and is resorting to lifetaps for DPS. Necro utility is also situational whereas raw DPS is not. A solid group with a good enchanter and a cleric that isn't struggling for mana has very little use for necro utility.

It depends on where the group is and what classes it has but I'd say I'm probably taking mage over necro the majority of the time. Exceptions being undead heavy zones and if the group lacks CC. Even then it's a bit of a toss up cause like 90% of necros don't know how to play in a group and you don't get anywhere near the full potential benefit of having them around anyway.

I don't have a lowly opinion of Mages[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Just because their kit is underpowered doesn't make them bad. Please do not get analysis confused with insult.

Luckily on P99 no class is actually bad or unplayable. Even the most underpowered class can still get through all of the game's content. However, some classes are better than others. In any asymmetrical game, classes are tiered. There is no way to avoid it, as this game isn't completely balanced like Chess.

Some people like to know which classes are better than others, as it is part of their decision making process when rolling a new class.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think "best" is a great bar for class selection at a contested raid, but I think classes mostly thrive in the xp environment by being "not worse than good." And mages are good dps. I haven't seen groups I've been in passing them up for the role.

At raids mages are the "best" cothers, mod rod summoners, and invuln trainers; often making a few of them necessary. I think a lot of classes have a similar situation where a few of them are necessary but more are suboptimal; I know I frequently log a guild cleric or rogue instead of my enchanter in tov, for example.

We are talking about underpowered in general, not one specific set of content. I 100% agree with you Mages are amazing in raids. They are one of the top classes due to their utility. But If the argument is that most players spend most of their time outside of the raid scene, then this is only a small part of the evaluation. Also, only a very small part of their toolkit is used in raids.

[oldschoolguy]

which class is more solo capable monk or SK? what about just killing stuff in higher levels. i played both long ago, been thinking of doing an alt. likely minimally geared.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it is a little silly to say Harmony is a crutch. I don't think Lulls or Feign Death are a crutch for pulling.

Any class can pull. Depending on how well you know the zone, you could even pull fairly well. But most people would still prefer using a safer method for pulling, because death is highly disruptive to the leveling process.

When you take away Harmony from Rangers, they aren't any different from a Wizard in terms of pulling. A Wizard could use snares and roots to accomplish the same thing you are describing. Wizards can also get instant agro with Staff of Temperate Flux.

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A good necro simply brings a lot more utility than a mage. A good necro will keep mana up for healers and enchanters,do half decent DPS with their pet. Their crowd control is very useful, necros are just a very well rounded class whereas mages can do very few things.

My first lvl 60 on p99 was a magician.

The pulling meta for groups the past year or so is no longer pull singles but groups of 2-4 mobs. It’s interesting you mention wizards as they are very good pullers/cc for such groups, even better than rangers!

They pull / get target with eye, hit the pull with aoe snare at the choke point into the camp and get things rooted quickly. The snare and root on inc really helps tank establish aggro as they can use proxy aggro from root initially, and taunt off the snare to piggy back a big boost to their hate.

The servers are very twinked at this point and groups close to pure melee do fine into the 50s. Often the only caster is a bard or enc focusing on heals or slows or a necromancer acting as healer.

[Zoolander]

Originally Posted by oldschoolguy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

which class is more solo capable monk or SK? what about just killing stuff in higher levels. i played both long ago, been thinking of doing an alt. likely minimally geared.

you already answered your question

[Vaarsuvius]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think the majority share the same lowly view of mages in group scenarios as you do. I also think you overestimate necro utility/dps in comparison. Necro will blow mage away if a good undead charm target is available BUT if there isn't an undead available mage damage is going to be consistently a good bit higher. Especially in a fast killing group where a necro's dots are practically 100% useless and is resorting to lifetaps for DPS. Necro utility is also situational whereas raw DPS is not. A solid group with a good enchanter and a cleric that isn't struggling for mana has very little use for necro utility.

It depends on where the group is and what classes it has but I'd say I'm probably taking mage over necro the majority of the time. Exceptions being undead heavy zones and if the group lacks CC. Even then it's a bit of a toss up cause like 90% of necros don't know how to play in a group and you don't get anywhere near the full potential benefit of having them around anyway.

What would a mage offer to be higher dps than a necro of the same level ?

I have both and I can't think of anything aside from a DS and magic/fire nukes that will be resisted a lot more than Deflux / Touch of Night / Vexing Mordinia ?

[Questors]

Rogue. Period. Mic drop. Elvis has left the building.