Self found shaman

[Maschenny]

Agree woth DSM on the barb proportions. Those narrow shoulders look bad. That being said their armor does look better.

[Crede]

i gotta go with iksar for min max shaman fashion. Can wear robes and the pog armor looks great too. They are the borderline min max race too(FSI and jbb both hugely overrated too)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i gotta go with iksar for min max shaman fashion. Can wear robes and the pog armor looks great too. They are the borderline min max race too(FSI and jbb both hugely overrated too)

JBB is not overrated at all. It is the best leveling tool you can get if you don't have Epic. Saving spell slots is also very nice on a Shaman after leveling. Shamans have quite a few mandatory spells on bar. You almost always have Canni 4, Torpor, Turgurs, and Malo, so you only have 4 slots to play with most of the time. JBB gives you one of your better DD spells for free off bar.

I still use my JBB quite a bit at level 60.

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by Elizondo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are items in the game that give regen

There are no items in the game that give FSI

Ogre is the only choice

Yeah FSI is a meme.

Once slowed something bashes once every 52 seconds. FSI is only good when you can back into a corner and not get push interrupted, but bad news, bash may not stun but it can interrupt regardless so, all in all, it's just overrated.

Now a free torpor once every 10 minutes, (with other effects like regrwoth and tunic it's a free torpor of hp every 3 minutes), that hands down is one of the best health/mana economies this game has in it.

It's really not even close.

The only real question is Troll Vs Iksar. Iksar has some pretty nice race stuff while troll gets bracer.

Honestly though at higher levels of soloing you don't use bracer as much and can pump out more damage using health to mana converstion which might give iksar the edge when its AC bonus (which is best AC bonus because it's dodge avoidance, not armor AC and so doesnt count towards the cap). Troll also has a higher stat bonus starting off.

The only reason to go Ogre is that you want a boatload of stats up front.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah FSI is a meme.

Once slowed something bashes once every 52 seconds. FSI is only good when you can back into a corner and not get push interrupted, but bad news, bash may not stun but it can interrupt regardless so, all in all, it's just overrated.

Now a free torpor once every 10 minutes, (with other effects like regrwoth and tunic it's a free torpor of hp every 3 minutes), that hands down is one of the best health/mana economies this game has in it.

It's really not even close.

The only real question is Troll Vs Iksar. Iksar has some pretty nice race stuff while troll gets bracer.

Honestly though at higher levels of soloing you don't use bracer as much and can pump out more damage using health to mana converstion which might give iksar the edge when its AC bonus (which is best AC bonus because it's dodge avoidance, not armor AC and so doesnt count towards the cap). Troll also has a higher stat bonus starting off.

The only reason to go Ogre is that you want a boatload of stats up front.

Ogre FSI is quite useful at level 60. The most dangerous part of a fight is the pre-slow phase (first minute or two). FSI can be the difference between a slow going off and you needing to gate.

Troll/Iksar regen is basically worthless over a fight where the mob is slowed and you have Torpor. There is a reason why you don't see Torpor Shaman's wearing a Fungi, which is better than Troll/Iksar Regen.

A standing Troll/Iksar gets 1 free Torpor every 15 minutes, assuming they aren't at full health. The problem is any Torpor Shaman is going to be at full health out of combat, due to Torpor hehe.

EDIT: If you ignore the stun component, then the spell may go through. This is because bash only has a chance to interrupt your spell. The only guaranteed spell interruption on the bash component is the stun. Having a decent percent chance to not get a slow interrupted in the first 30 seconds is much more useful than Troll/Iksar regen, which would only give you 80 HP in the first minute of the fight. That won't save you.

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ogre FSI is quite useful at level 60. The most dangerous part of a fight is the pre-slow phase (first minute or two). FSI can be the difference between a slow going off and you needing to gate.

Troll/Iksar regen is basically worthless over a fight where the mob is slowed and you have Torpor. There is a reason why you don't see Torpor Shaman's wearing a Fungi, which is better than Troll/Iksar Regen.

A standing Troll/Iksar gets 1 free Torpor every 15 minutes, assuming they aren't at full health. The problem is any Torpor Shaman is going to be at full health out of combat, due to Torpor hehe.

EDIT: You are also incorrect about bash automatically interrupting spells. The stun interrupts the spell, not the bash.

1. Point one is often too situational to be relied on. All hard solo mobs have been done by every race. If this was a huge factor, we'd see differences in success rate among races. We don't, so we know it's not a huge issue.

2. Mana fuels torpor, health fuels mana. Regen in long fights not only makes your extended dps go up more, it also opens you up to kill things faster. Active shaman can benefit more from using canni/torpor rotations because their active regen contributes massively the longer a fight goes on. The regen is useless once you get torpor argument is a false claim.

3. Bash does have a chance to interrupt the spell. Not only am I right, I challenge you to go test it.

FSI is nothing more than a meme who needs narrow situational crutches to put it on par with Regen or Regen + AC


Nevermind grouping as having a tank will make FSI completely and utterly useless.


It's a no brainer, Min/Max is Regen through and through.

We're also not even including higher level mobs which have a higher chance to kick versus bash as well. Yeah, the more things you consider, the more you realize that beyond the surface level, Ogres are really only good for one thing - stats, a lot of front loaded stats.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Point one is often too situational to be relied on. All hard solo mobs have been done by every race. If this was a huge factor, we'd see differences in success rate among races. We don't, so we know it's not a huge issue.

2. Mana fuels torpor, health fuels mana. Regen in long fights not only makes your extended dps go up more, it also opens you up to kill things faster. Active shaman can benefit more from using canni/torpor rotations because their active regen contributes massively the longer a fight goes on. The regen is useless once you get torpor argument is a false claim.

3. Bash does have a chance to interrupt the spell. Not only am I right, I challenge you to go test it.

FSI is nothing more than a meme who needs narrow situational crutches to put it on par with Regen or Regen + AC

1. I never said FSI is required[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I said it's better than Regen at level 60 with Torpor.

2.Regen over a long fight is irrelevant on kill speed for a Torpor Shaman. If you are doing 15 minute fights, you are saving 180 mana, or 30 seconds, on one Torpor. Most of the time you are not chain fighting mobs with a Torpor Shaman, you are fighting hard mobs that don't spawn often. It won't increase most player's kill speeds by any significant margin, unless you play like 12 hours a day.

3. I said it wrong, I apologize. If you see, I edited my post to correct it. Bash has a chance to interrupt, but stun is a guaranteed interrupt. Removing the guaranteed interrupt gives you a great chance to get the spell through.

The point is simply that FSI is better than Troll/Iksar Regen once you have Torpor. No racial is required to play a Shaman. Again, you can see people know this is the case, because you don't see a lot of Torpor Shamans using Fungi Tunics, even though that has 2x the regen of a Troll/Iksar.

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. I never said FSI is required[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I said it's better than Regen at level 60 with Torpor.

2.Regen over a long fight is irrelevant on kill speed for a Torpor Shaman. If you are doing 15 minute fights, you are saving 180 mana, or 30 seconds, on one Torpor. Most of the time you are not chain fighting mobs with a Torpor Shaman, you are fighting hard mobs that don't spawn often. It won't increase most player's kill speeds by any significant margin, unless you play like 12 hours a day.

3. I said it wrong, I apologize. If you see, I edited my post to correct it. Bash has a chance to interrupt, but stun is a guaranteed interrupt. Removing the guaranteed interrupt gives you a great chance to get the spell through.

The point is simply that FSI is better than Troll/Iksar Regen once you have Torpor. No racial is required to play a Shaman. Again, you can see people know this is the case, because you don't see a lot of Torpor Shamans using Fungi Tunics, even though that has 2x the regen of a Troll/Iksar.

I still stand by all my points. FSI is too situational to be useful and you can not compare to the raw math behind regen.

If regen wasn't important, people wouldnt go out of their way to stack it. It's simply proven to help your economy out long term in every situation.

From downtime, to soloing, to negating a portion of dot damage, etc.

It makes your character more efficient no matter the situation.

If you want to talk about raw value, consider this:

Making a Troll or Iksar shaman off the bat is a free 30-90k bonus you just made coming out from character creation.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I still stand by all my points. FSI is too situational to be useful and you can not compare to the raw math behind regen.

If regen wasn't important, people wouldnt go out of their way to stack it. It's simply proven to help your economy out long term in every situation.

From downtime, to soloing, to negating a portion of dot damage, etc.

It makes your character more efficient no matter the situation.

If you want to talk about raw value, consider this:

Making a Troll or Iksar shaman off the bat is a free 30-90k bonus you just made coming out from character creation.

I didn't say regen wasn't important. Troll/Iksar regen is better than FSI until you get Torpor. Regen simply has different importance to different classes. Once you have Torpor, stacking regen is largely useless. I don't bother casting regrowth on myself most of the time with my Torpor Shaman. I kill the same number of things per hour with and without it. You just need to play a Torpor Shaman to understand this, and look at what Torpor Shamans wear on their chest. It usually isn't a Fungi Tunic.

You can easily math it out if you don't want to level up a Shaman, but for some reason people don't like doing that.

When choosing between Ogre or Troll/Iksar, you are basically thinking about faster leveling vs. better endgame. Ogre is the better endgame character with Torpor. Troll/Iksar is the better leveler and race that never gets to level 60.

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't say regen wasn't important. Troll/Iksar regen is better than FSI until you get Torpor. Regen simply has different importance to different classes. Once you have Torpor, stacking regen is largely useless. I don't bother casting regrowth on myself most of the time with my Torpor Shaman. I kill the same number of things per hour with and without it. You just need to play a Torpor Shaman to understand this, and look at what Torpor Shamans wear on their chest. It usually isn't a Fungi Tunic.

Just can't disagree more. I used both my regen tunic have played both a barb and a troll. It's night and day at end level the difference you get with and without regen, even with torpor.

If you're trying to min max or setup for hard fights, you're going in with every edge you can get, and 12 hp standing + 15 from tunic + another 15 from regrowth is a raw 420 hp extra per minute.

People are min maxing their characters for 20 stamina investments to get piddly higher HP pools, and here we are with troll or iksar, literally getting 420 extra raw hp per minute as long as we're not at max health.

Like I said, you can't beat the value.