Patch Notes: Monday, September 5th, 2016

[Lojik]

Do you want classic mechanics or classic gameplay? They are not necessarily the same. The devs do their best to relive the "classic experience" the best way they see possible. Since so much has changed outside the world of eq in terms of information and computer technology, classic mechanics and classic gameplay will be at odds with each other. All the devs can do is try to find the best compromise out of the situation. How dare they make changes to their own server (that we play on for free.)

The most telling aspect of classic eq was the tears of whiners when devs made changes...so in that respect they are doing a damn good job. Kudos.

[khanable]

Originally Posted by Lojik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you want classic mechanics or classic gameplay? They are not necessarily the same. The devs do their best to relive the "classic experience" the best way they see possible. Since so much has changed outside the world of eq in terms of information and computer technology, classic mechanics and classic gameplay will be at odds with each other. All the devs can do is try to find the best compromise out of the situation. How dare they make changes to their own server (that we play on for free.)

The most telling aspect of classic eq was the tears of whiners when devs made changes...so in that respect they are doing a damn good job. Kudos.

+1

If devs hardlined on classic mechanics we'd still be hooping down dragons like a bunch of rabid assholes with 400 on the spawn point

This change is a giant net-positive for this server (moving forward) and whatever new server comes up at a later date

Sorry some of ya'll actually have to level your toons now, must be so shitty!

[LordRayken]

Originally Posted by ergo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ad populum[logical fallacy] is never a rational justification for a decision. Everyone thought burning witches was a good idea too, save the witch. That doesn't make burning said witch the correct, or logical thing to do.

You have over many patches decided that something being classic has no baring on what you and your staff will do. The argument of xxx not being classic means nothing because you will ignore what is classic when it suits you.[see level requirement on epics as an example, spoiler: Still no minimum level requirement on live servers]

Isn't using such extreme and illogical analogies like "burning witches is okay" a logical fallacy as well? That wasn't even a proper ad populum fallacy anyway.

You're stretching to make an argument.

No class in any game should be able to kill an entire zone with an aoe. That's just bad design, classic or not.

[brecon]

Sorry dudes, not a democracy. All hail our wise and virtuous overlords.

[Decad]

Originally Posted by Lojik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you want classic mechanics or classic gameplay? They are not necessarily the same. The devs do their best to relive the "classic experience" the best way they see possible. Since so much has changed outside the world of eq in terms of information and computer technology, classic mechanics and classic gameplay will be at odds with each other. All the devs can do is try to find the best compromise out of the situation. How dare they make changes to their own server (that we play on for free.)

The most telling aspect of classic eq was the tears of whiners when devs made changes...so in that respect they are doing a damn good job. Kudos.

+1.

Likewise if classic mechanics and UI exist here lots of amazing feats would not even be remotely possible.

Classic nitpicking on specific issues that favours individuals rather then real classic is exactly what's going on.

[FatMice]

Telin: Changed the name of "a huge water elemental" in Lower Guk to the classic "an huge water elemental" and increased its level range and difficulty.

Love this.

[syztem]

haha, im all for this 25 limit. glad my toons are leveled up. wont matter much on red since exp is still easy to get, but itll get rid of the huge influx of new toons randomly level 60 that you have never seen once before. Glad CoM swarming is gone, kinda sad that I can't swarm new players up in OT 30-50 anymore, but shit happens y'know? there are other ways to get exp.

Only thing I can see that might effect this which I don't even do anymore, is a bard aoe swarming something like grim aura earring camp. pull 50-60 goblins of entire ruins and aoe them down takes 1 chords/denons/selos to kill it all, only difference now is youll have to play it like 3-4 times to hit the extra 25 25 25...

egress indoors, pras. and evacing from dungeons in vel to anywherenow so gooooog goog goog. go from CS/SG to sebilis in like 2 minutes. no more bullshit port to DL, run the crapper to KC, evac. so glad i never got around to leveling another druid to 39 to re-bind at KC for sole evac purposes.

A+++ changes. thanks @P99devs

[ergo]

Originally Posted by LordRayken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Isn't using such extreme and illogical analogies like "burning witches is okay" a logical fallacy as well? That wasn't even a proper ad populum fallacy anyway.

You're stretching to make an argument.

No class in any game should be able to kill an entire zone with an aoe. That's just bad design, classic or not.

Reverse order: Your opinion on what should or shouldn't be the case is irrelevant to what was the case and how the game was played originally. People have taken it to extremes here[p99] due to knowing everything about the game.

As for the comparison:

I was giving an example to illustrate the point of fallacy. Rogan said:

Originally Posted by Rogan

So while you may disagree with one or two of the reasons, there's certainly enough people here agreeing that the change overall needed to be made.

Literally his own words as justification as to why the change needed to be made. Its a bad argument. My using his same logic and applying it elsewhere to show why it is bad logic and a bad argument is not a stretch.

The other people agreeing with the nerf has no baring on the nerf being right or wrong, or the conclusion reached being reasonable and that is why it is a logical fallacy.

"Because fuck you[bards/wizards/enchanters/ae groups], that's why" is a better reason than a logical fallacy to justify why a change needs to be made or some bullshit excuse about system specs/internet of the time etc.

By the end of 1998, the North American cable industry counted 550,000 cable modem subscribers. That grew to 1.6 million by the end of 1999 and five million a year later. At the end of 2002, there were more than 16 million.

Source: http://www.informit.com/library/cont...band&seqNum=17

It's a bullshit excuse. Swarm kiting was a thing in classic EQ, AE groups were a thing in classic EQ. This is a fact.

Originally Posted by Ravager

Faulty Comparison [logical fallacy]

If you are going to try to call me out, at least get the name right.

Witch hunts and emulated games are not the same thing,

I never made the claim they were, strawman. I was speaking specifically at the mass (a mob burning a witch) and claiming to be justified because the majority agreed. I never claimed witch burning and video games were alike.

I see why you would think, incorrectly, that that was my point, which it was not because arguing against the point I made would be futile.

Blue and red are irrelevant in this discussion. I couldn't care less about red v blue and it has no influence on my argument regarding this nerf.

I care about bad justifications for nerfing 16yr old content to appeal to the 'majority' of people on the forums and zero indication that the forums represent the server as a whole, only the loudest and seemingly the most ignorant.

I care about the hypocrisy of the admins claiming to care about a 'classic experience' when it suits them and ignoring it when it differs from their desires.

I have no objection to them doing as they will on their server, but be honest about it and stop using the 'classic/not classic' bullshit shield, appeals to popularity of idiots on the forums, or made up computer spec issues to justify those actions.

Maybe the community is too stupid to be insulted by Rogan's words, I am not sure. nm it's the internet, what am I thinking?

[isoka]

Greedy bards will pull 25 so they don't let any corpse rot

[elwing]

Woot, best patch ever!

edit: the bards will not disrupt the zone 4time longer. The real issue is with people continuously selling PL using AE(and all the possible RMT), now exp will comes 4 time slower, meaning 4 time less money, meaning doing it will become less attractive and less people will do it. and as it was said they will probably take only 25 at a time. I'm sorry for the bard who exp for themselves, but this nerf is way better than the one on live that does 0 damage when the mob is moving...