Raid Scene - A RnF Repost

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Nexii [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No training should be a rule. Probably don't need much else. Training will probably be less common if guilds can just camp on the damn bosses.

Well how do you define training?

Is it when you gather a whole slew of mobs around a priority target, pull out your priority target and when you deposit the remaining mobs somewhere else letting them disperse naturally until someone else is in the wrong place at the wrong time re-aggroing it all and chaining it back towards unsuspecting raid forces gathered?

or

Is it when you gather a whole slew of mobs around a priority target, lose complete aggro of everything just outside of a doorway but unaggro until someone zones in unknowing causing a re-aggro of everything that someone else had just brought to the door?

There are a lot of problems with saying "don't train" because training itself is never defined and looks completely different given a varying amount of circumstances that lead to the train. This is where P99 admins need to really think hard how they want their game played because there are alot of rabbit holes that can be opened with new rules if they are not clear.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Oleris [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't get to play during the no CSR period in VP, but I can't imagine how crazy TOV would be with no rules.

It was pretty interesting. But the thing is, VP dragons only have 32K HP. So TMO could blow them as long as their counter-trainers could get them a minute or so in the clear. I don't see how anyone could ever kill Vulak if trains were legal. FFA TOV would almost certainly result in a rotation eventually.

Fundamentally, EQ is a PVE game. Guilds competing directly never really works. Both Sirken and Rogean tried to come up with good raid rules for direct competition and they both failed. The only form that works is time-based: during an earthquake, whichever guild mobilizes and kills fastest does the best.

[Wonkie]

it's time for a rotation

[Nexii]

Training would be where another guild was substantially hindered by your train. Such as killing part or all of another guild's raid force. Yea it's subjective, but typically it's really obvious. If it's not obvious then it's probably no foul.

Again though training would be much less an issue if raid mobs could just be fought on their spawn point. The tracker rule hasn't served its purpose to reduce socking. All priority targets are instant engaged regardless.

[Nexii]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was pretty interesting. But the thing is, VP dragons only have 32K HP. So TMO could blow them as long as their counter-trainers could get them a minute or so in the clear. I don't see how anyone could ever kill Vulak if trains were legal. FFA TOV would almost certainly result in a rotation eventually.

Fundamentally, EQ is a PVE game. Guilds competing directly never really works. Both Sirken and Rogean tried to come up with good raid rules for direct competition and they both failed. The only form that works is time-based: during an earthquake, whichever guild mobilizes and kills fastest does the best.

Agree, in Velious you would have to hold off trains for ~10 minutes. VP dragons in constrast can be killed in 30 seconds. A guild's power would be measured by its willingness to grief other guilds...probably not condusive to a healthy raid scene...

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Nexii [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Training would be where another guild was substantially hindered by your train. Such as killing part or all of another guild's raid force. Yea it's subjective, but typically it's really obvious. If it's not obvious then it's probably no foul.

Key words like this are the problem with Raid Scene rules. You add that in and suddenly every Guild Leader is arguing that whatever happens was not 'substantial' and certainly never intentional. I ve lost count how many times I was told by opposing Officer/Leaders that whatever infraction we were claiming was not significant enough because of a variety of observations they would have such as how many clerics logged in or whether we had a tank present.

Guild Leaders will take a mile if you give them an inch. We can't leave things up for interpretation is my main point here or we will suffer from the same mistakes.

[Pint]

Originally Posted by Nexii [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No training should be a rule. Probably don't need much else. Training will probably be less common if guilds can just camp on the damn bosses.

Training is alrdy covered by the PnP

[America]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Training is alrdy covered by the PnP

running a train during PnP is REALLY high risk =/ i hope u guys dont actually do that..

[Swish2]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Training is alrdy covered by the PnP

I take it the PnP wouldn't cover raid zones if that's what people are suggesting.

[bspa0700]

I'd love to give my opinion, but we haven't gotten to a point that the community can trust that open, honest conversation about the rules of the server won't be met with a permaban.