#31
|
||||
|
Quote:
Hybrids and wizards are subpar. Not shamans. | |||
Last edited by Tecmos Deception; 11-06-2019 at 12:41 AM..
|
|
#32
|
||||
|
Quote:
Strongest debuffs Haste, slow, heals (+regen) and can tank, play with a group or one of the strongest solo classes even in classic from lvl 1 to 50. Yaaaa real dogshit class that shaman | |||
|
#33
|
||||
|
Quote:
| |||
|
#34
|
||||||||||||||
|
Quote:
I've said this repeatedly throughout the thread, but the mistake that everyone is making is that they remember how amazing Shamans are at 51+, and they think that power must have been a continuation from the state of the class in vanilla. Unfortunately that is not the case, and I've already explained why but I guess I'll do it again because people are stubborn and they choose to believe what they want to believe over actual factual information. Quote:
I don't know what "playing a Shaman like a gimpy cleric" means. That's how the class was designed. There's no player skill that can overcome Greater Healing being your best heal spell, and the 15% healing penalty compared to Clerics. This isn't a "just play better" thing. Don't get mad at me, I didn't design this game. But all of those things are objectively the truth. Shamans get an underpowered heal spell. Non-clerics receive a healing penalty. That is just reality that we live in. Quote:
Shamans also aren't very good at mezzing, stunning, interrupting, charming, lulling, or any of the other utility that an Enchanter would provide. Inviting a Shaman for slow is like inviting a Ranger to tank. Sure they can do it, but only because the better option wasn't available. How is that a point in their favor? Also worth mentioning that slow in general just isn't as good in vanilla as it in in future expansions. Most things in raids are magic-immune, and everything else in vanilla dies so quickly that the slow isn't as significant. It's also a very mana intensive spell with its cost and chance to be resisted, so it's difficult to utilize without later improvements like unresistable Tash, Malo, Clarity 2, Cannibalize 3, Torpor, etc. The meta in Kunark+ of slowing every mob that you fight just isn't as much of a thing in vanilla EQ. Quote:
And a level 50 Warrior is the best scenario. Stamina gives a level 50 caster 80 HP. Wow, incredible. That's one extra Manastone click. Strength is in a bit of a similar situation. Sure it's going to improve melee dps a bit, but it's not massively significant like it might be in other MMOs that are more stat-based. Dexterity and Agility are niche tank buffs. These aren't game-breaking advantages like you seem to be suggesting. And other classes get buffs too. Druids get some great buffs like thorns. They get what is essentially Resolution (one of the best buffs in the game) with additional HP regen tacked on. Why don't we discuss how amazing Druid buffs are in groups and raids? Oh yeah, because they don't become amazing in Kunark like Shamans do, so they're relegated to "bad class" territory even though they suffer the same exact problems that Shamans do in vanilla. And you know what buffs are actually good in EverQuest? Stuff like haste, which Enchanters do much better, mana regeneration, which only Enchanters and Bards do at all, etc. Quote:
Quote:
So cool, Shamans can do something slightly better than another class. It's mostly only relevant when grouping with a charming Enchanter. In fact Enchanter + Shaman is a decent duo... if the Enchanter can't find a Cleric to duo with. Quote:
Quote:
I didn't include Ranger in the "9 classes better than Shaman" list I formulated in my head, but how are they significantly worse than Shamans? They perform consistent DPS, they're even better at cc (root+snare), they can tank in a pinch. With Mistwalker they're absolutely ridiculous, and Shamans don't get any sort of potential like that in Vanilla. And Bards have a way deeper utility kit too. Wizard is generally one of the most recruited classes for raid guilds in vanilla EQ. You're literally required to have a few of them to enter Plane of Hate or Sky, and the mobility that ports in general afford you is a huge advantage that always gets glossed over whenever Wizards are discussed. Again, they have better CC than Shamans (root, stun, snare) and they're a competent DPS class that does unfortunately get screwed a bit by bad game design and the resists of high tier raid mobs. But like Shamans they improve by quite a bit in future expansions. I don't know, I don't see hybrids or Wizards as being significantly worse than Shamans but maybe you can expand on why you think that a bit more. Quote:
So no, Shamans do not get the best buffs. Nothing that Shamans get are as good as SLTW or Clarity. And it just so happens that the same class gets both of those. I guess that would make that class the best at buffing. The next best buffs are magic resistance and the raw HP/AC buffs. The best magic resistance buff is yet again exclusive to Enchanters, and Clerics get the best HP/AC buffs. Talisman is pretty good, though. I guess that makes Shamans the third best buff class in vanilla EQ. I've been ignoring Bards because they don't get static buff spells. But if you include them, Shamans drop to 4th for obvious reasons. So the class that's known for buffing is the 3rd or 4th best buffing class in the game. Doesn't that just scream "above average" to you? Quote:
So, Shamans are competent at debuffing. They don't excel at debuffing since Enchanters have an edge until Kunark. Again, maybe you're confusing Kunark Shamans with Vanilla Shamans. Quote:
So let's use your own list to once again summarize why that is. You mention haste, but their haste is half as effective as an Enchanter's, and it only lasts a few minutes. Shamans had to wait over 3 and a half years just to receive the same haste spell that Enchanters get in vanilla. You mention slow, but Enchanters do that better. You mention heals, but Clerics do that way better. You mention regen, but Druids get the same regen spell. They can "tank," but worse than Warriors, Shadow Knights, Paladins, Monks, Rangers, and possibly more. So please explain, how is this class above average?
__________________
| |||||||||||||
Last edited by Khorza; 11-06-2019 at 11:26 AM..
|
|
#36
|
|||
|
Well at least I can rationalize and explain my position. Yours seems to be arbitrarily picked out of the ether, and defended without any sort of logical reasoning.
__________________
| ||
|
#37
|
|||
|
I explained myself as much as I can be bothered to on this topic. If you didn't notice it or understand it as such, that just makes me feel better about not wanting to put more effort into this than I did already :P
| ||
|
#38
|
|||
|
Do you want to train your body to handle pain?
Do you want to physically train to move those fingers in twisting twitching motions! Do you want to smell like Bangay and rock a wrist wrap? Then the Bard is the class for you. *MOM! MOM! GET THE BENGAY! OOoooo The clicking numbs the body. | ||
|
#39
|
|||
|
The reason the shaman is a powerful class is their versatility. They may have marginally inferior versions of haste and slow, but they combine them with other utility that makes them a powerful class. Their ability to regenerate their own mana rapidly make them extra powerful and constantly useful.
Bards also great. | ||
|
#40
|
||||
|
Quote:
Are you going to refute any of the points that I just made? Or are you going to just stubbornly stick to your position despite being unable to defend it? It's okay to admit that you're wrong once in awhile, you know. It's a good look, too.
__________________
| |||
|
|
|