Green should disallow GINA

[Ashenden]

Originally Posted by kylok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's about what I figured... not sure why people are so upset about parsers and graphs...

I dunno man, I question people who are going to play on Green but think stuff like this is totally fine and not at all advantageous.

[Baler]

Guys with a sad heart i'm here to tell you all..
The wiki is being deleted.

It's not classic and gives an advantage. Thank you to everyone over the years who contributed. But for the well being and health of the green server it must be shutdown.

[whitebandit]

Originally Posted by Mblake81 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ruins of Kunark release date: April 24, 2000

Scars of Velious release date: December 5, 2000

Shadows of Luclin release date: December 4, 2001

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[Gustoo]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Project 1999 didn't exist during classic, therefor not classic.

:

Shut her down boys.

[zodium]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

here's an extreme
Project 1999 didn't exist during classic, therefor not classic.

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MODS delete this post before nilbog and rogeman see it and are forced to return to the bizarro dimension

[Dolalin]

I think there is a case for disabling log output to disk for a period of time. Maybe up until Kunark or Velious.

GINA is not in the spirit of classic EQ. Period.

But of course I am not a dev.

[Niedar]

Originally Posted by kylok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was a genuine question, and thank you for your response. I believe the devs are here to make a classic-as-possible EverQuest experience available to all in a living museum sort of fashion - from the server side. I feel they have done a great job so far and support their efforts and decisions.

Where we disagree is whether or not this tool allows players to dominate this game - I do not feel that it does. It appears quite convenient, having the in your face visual display that an ability is usable/buff timers/etc... but I'm not seeing anything that a player couldn't otherwise do without this tool. It's not doing anything like MQ or ShowEQ. This might allow a new player to continue playing a game that may otherwise quit, but I don't see it being the one thing they needed to suddenly become a skillful player.

I get where you're coming from, wanting the experience to be as stock and classic as possible for everyone. But a line has to be drawn somewhere in terms of enforcement of that ideal. It seems like they're doing everything they can, short of disabling the log file - which I do not believe will happen. This topic has been touched on before, although not this exact tool but another one that reads log files and displays your position on a map.
Third-party app rules question
Rogean stated "Programs that parse the log file are fine, as long as they do not do any type of automatic control/response/manipulation/macro on your character in place of manual control."

Logs are classic, they should be available in my opinion. Everyone's EQ experience was different back in the day. Yes, in terms of hardware and knowledge limitations (although not universally) but also in terms of game experience. Some were casual and never hit max level, some did casual pick up style raiding, some had pre-made groups, some people did raiding on a regular schedule... and you also had guilds like Fires of Heaven. There's lots of ways to play this game, we as players get the freedom to choose how to do that. The log file was an intentional tool given to the player in the original game. It should remain available to those who want to use it to recreate that style of game play that was being done by the top 1% guilds of the time by parsing the data.

Its a wrap folks, that Rogean confirms that log parsers are fine and ok and will not be removed. Just give up folks, GINA is classic.

[Izmael]

Hey, here's an idea. Not sure if this is technically feasible, though.

Delay the log files being written to the disk by a random value.

On Green only, use DSETUP to make a wrapper function around whatever writes log files, and store the log messages in a memory buffer instead of writing to the disk.
Every 2 minutes or so, roll a dice 100 and see if it's less than 10. If yes, flush the buffer to the disk. Also flush the buffer to the disk upon zoning, camping, /q, disconnection.


This way, we preserve logging, we make GINA and any other log parser much, much less useful. We don't have to worry about identifying GINA processes or anything fuzzy like that, we don't have to worry about overlays, etc.

As for log parsers being classic - I'm afraid they aren't. People back then didn't use log parsers, or voice comm (except maybe a Skype call 1-on-1 sometimes...). Yes, log parser tools existed in 1999. UNIX tools such as tail, grep, awk or sed existed probably a good 25-30 years before 1999.

But I don't think anyone used them to farm 10,000 Shralok Packs or whatever. People just played the game.

[Rooj]

Originally Posted by Niedar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its a wrap folks, that Rogean confirms that log parsers are fine and ok and will not be removed. Just give up folks, GINA is classic.

The entire point of this thread is that GINA is more than just something that looks at the log, it gives you access to alerts.

The only way for the staff to enforce not using it would be somehow disallow logging, which is probably not going to happen (and a workaround will instantly begun to be worked on by someone). GINA isn't new, I don't know how old it is, but I'm pretty sure it's old enough for the staff to have made a decision about it years ago. So I'm going to assume that the staff categorizes it in the allowed "log parser" programs.

It should probably be added to the Getting Started page:
"5. You may not use third-party programs on Project 1999.

The use of any third-party programs on Project 1999, including but not limited to, Macroquest/Macroquest2(MQ/MQ2), ShowEQ(SEQ), or any other program that interacts with the Everquest Titanium Client, is strictly prohibited. Use of any third-party programs will be detected and will result in the permanent banning of your account(s). No exceptions will be made, and once a ban has been enacted for violation of this rule it will not be reversed.

This is not limited to programmable keyboards or other input devices that creates multiple inputs for a single keystroke or automated task.

Wineq2 by Lavishsoft is the exception to this rule. In addition, any program that strictly reads log files is acceptable."

Would be nice to have the links to any allowed program there as well for easier access, maybe even part of the installation instructions.

[Xallis]

So to me Gina is an intricate and meticulously set bunch of egg timers, most folk on this forum could code a version of a timer - even one based on log file parsing. So the form it takes is pretty irrelevant - some people will use it, most won't.