Are GMs actually adressing /petitions?

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Crashking [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can agree that a logfile is telling a story in general from one side as it comes from the person doing the recording and there are distance limits and such to what it records.


I can also tell you that video recording is just as bad, because it only shows what is on the screen in the view aspect of the player recording it. I can speak from experience here in saying First Person doesn't really provide a great view of what is going on and to stop and trying to adjust camera while trying to stay alive isn't always possible.


The logging data captured by having game logs running can provide a far clearer picture and can be verified there by the server side data. I understand its a lot of work to deal with a petition and confirm a claim but sadly that's the job. I have some idea here to make things less stressful but since I can't get an audience with Rogean / Nilbog on issue of past, I don't see how I can present thing that should be discussed to make improvements.


I can't speak of the capability of OBS software there as I have yet to toy with it, but sure if you have and it does the buffering and such great. However, as was stated prior a short 5 or 10 min recording might not show a whole picture. Also, I stand by my statement of not getting a good idea of the situation because often we are fighting for our lives instead of trying to record proof of bad deeds.


I've stated this a number of times.. I'm more than willing to give a full days break down from my game log or even the entire things since i started playing to show that it isn't faked. and the excerpt portions pasted into a petition are indeed true and accurate.





While your example might provide case light to some examples. I can certainly provide you with specific counter examples that do indeed show what went on. As I have put forth exact petitions to the GMs with full game logging. As I stated before the idea of someone faking a log .. should be a completely ban-able offense if a player is caught. As with most things 2 sides to a story so yes, I'd recommend to any one else to have logging running so you can show the GM's your exact side. The comparison of both sets of logs by GM can easily show if one party has doctored something and in addition comparison to the actual server logs. I've never seen the server side stuff, but i suspect it is similar to the client side logging and has specific time stamping embedded into it.


Though the years playing here, I have been forced to learn how to be "EQ lawyer" such that I can defend myself verse any ones claims against me. The vagueness of the PnP in many areas may leave room for GM decisions, but at the same time, it allows a good amount of conflict to exist which brings forth the need to have a GM come step in. The largest problem I see is many don't know or haven't read the PnP or lack the full understanding of what is written there. In addition that can be compounded with those that have read / understand the PnP but don't care because they seem to think there is no punishment for breaking them, because the amount and burden of proof involved to report these violations falls on the victim of their actions. I can state fully that the amount of time I have put forth to submit petitions with full evidence has taken a number of hours, as I comb back though the client side logging to pull out relevant information, and provide my commentary of what was going on at that stage. The times at which I had video recording, it just compounded the time spent as I described previously. You have to use the tools you have at hand, until you can find & learn how to use better tools.


I found something new here the other day that is a number of month old and yet it weakens things allowing more people to become victims of those that don't follow the PnP.

You wrote a ton of text that didn't really contradict anything I said. Logs can help to provide supporting evidence, but they are not enough to prove anything. Because again they don't show the full context of the situation. They show that someone engaged a mob, etc. etc.; they don't confirm that it was a kill steal (unless they engage while you were engaging as well, but even then it's not 100% direct evidence), they don't confirm that a train was intentional, etc. I was CSR back on live and can tell you logs don't paint a full enough picture unless you're talking about chat logs where they're admitting to doing the rule breaking or combat logs from some sort of list/rotation system (i.e. list at a camp or a raid rotation) where it's clearly established who should be killing what.

As a separate matter, it's kind of funny that you're arguing that volunteer guides and GMs on a free emulated server should dedicate tons of time comparing player logs to server logs just to figure out whether someone stole your random like level 30 mob while you were XPing, instead of you just doing a tiny bit of work on your end and recording it.

[Crashking]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As a separate matter, it's kind of funny that you're arguing that volunteer guides and GMs on a free emulated server should dedicate tons of time comparing player logs to server logs just to figure out whether someone stole your random like level 30 mob while you were XPing, instead of you just doing a tiny bit of work on your end and recording it.

You all are missing the big picture. First Cd288 you are making assumptions about what i am submitting petition on which is your first mistake. Second I am well aware that those working on this project as CSR are volunteer / unpaid position - they are putting forth their free time as a way to ensure the project runs (hopefully smoothly).


I am aware of the back log and it why my petitions sit. I have had some sit for 2 years to only then be closed saying doh.. sorry we aren't going to prosecute because um yeah this shits 2 years old, no telling if person X even plays. There are thing that can be done to cut down on the amount of petitions and have them move toward more of the type that strictly require staff intervention - corpse retrieval, item reimbursement from failed quest, mob under world or glitched, ect. that is the reasoning for posting.


The amount / burden of proof on the victim here in regards to case of KS or spawn stealing ect. is huge. Again pointing out that recording isn't always going to show stuff even if you happened to have it running and if you don't but happened to have game logging running - the game logs do show a set of evidence, it up the the GMs to review it. Saying it can be faked and not accepting what is there is just a line of crap because again it can be compared to server. The other person can try to present any evidence they have, that just the way trials and judgments work. Sure I get that not every place in the world has the same ideas and workings but the general concept flies. The Project has it rules, either they are to be followed by everyone equally or else screw them and just let the server become anarchy of red rules where might plays the ruling role.


If it not clear enough here I'll spell it out ... I'm not arguing against the submission of video recordings as an accepted method of proof, but I am arguing for the acceptance of client side gaming logs to be used as acceptable proof which can be reviewed by the GMs and compared against another players log and/or server side data. I'm trying to push for the enforcement of the rules such that those that are breaking them can get time off in an effort to curb their behavior. However, if that doesn't work then I'm all in favor of having them permanently removed.


As for Menden the word job is to imply task, gig, role - not PAID POSITION for time inputted.

[Sacer]

I will use that topic to get something off my chest, it made me so mad at the time.

I am in TT trying to get a seb key for an alt, I had to kill several named to finally get a froglok hunter to spawn, we were 3 in zone no other druid, I finally get one to pop, snare it and bring it to the TT tunnel where my alt was camped.

The mob has been engaged for 3 minutes at this point when I get to the tunnel I root the mob start doting and a druid mysteriously appear from nowhere, cast 2 nuke on it and let his lowbie friend loot the mob in front of me.

I was so shocked I didn't even try to outdps him, I thought it was an honest mistake and he would let me loot it or at least apologies, but nonono he nuked a mob that was a 70% hp, snared and rooted in an area where no mob path, and argued that he was in his right.

I got a froglok hunter 10min later so no big deal right? Well no I was and I am still pissed to this day, more than a year after, that someone could act like that without impunity. I did petition but I doubt anything happened.

The only thing you can do is name and shame, and hopefully people believe you. And for those people saying you need video evidence then the GMs will act, I raided enough on p99 to know that's rarely the case. But the vaste majority are good people and the server tend to police itself, it always catch up to you soon or later when you have a bad rep with such a small community.

[Bigsham]

Please condense posts into a few sentences or we cant read them.

[Smellybuttface]

Originally Posted by Bigsham [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please condense posts into a few sentences or we cant read them.

I hope you mean you “won’t” read them. There is no “we.” If you actually “can’t” read a paragraph or two then there are much bigger problems at play.

[gnomishfirework]

Yes they eventually take care of business and its great when they do. Thanks staff!