My proposal for Raiding guilds and GMs of P1999

[Starklen]

Originally Posted by Modus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This. From page 1 of this thread, you can see the mindless insults spit from the drawling retards of IB. I have no doubt in my mind that DA, Remedy, and Divinity could reach a fair, competitive ruleset consensus within minutes. Add Inglorious Douchebags, and all you'll get is childish nonsense resulting in a thread such as this one.

Every time Alawen and Gwence open their mouths, the true colors of IB are clearly shown. Other guilds on this server want a compromise that benefits all of us, as intelligible adults not obsessed with video game bragging rights.

Sometimes a farmer needs to cull the lame sheep from the herd...

The irony of this makes me smile.

[Modus]

The first ten pages of this thread belie the truth.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by Modus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The first ten pages of this thread belie the truth.

The second ten, another equally valid truth.

[Xzerion]

So I'll start be reiterating what Alawen said, if DA stops camping, IB WILL stop camping as well. We have a guild full of people who want to raid, and if we didn't camp, we wouldn't be raiding at all ever right now because of what was started. Nobody in IB wants to camp, we didn't start this, so if people want it to end under the current rule set, then it is easy for that to happen. We all know it won't though.

For someone to say that IB isn't interested in trying to work anything out or try to get along is flat out wrong. I have never ignored or blown off anyone wanting to come and talk to me about anything here. IB openly went to the guild meetings to try and improve upon the server rules to clear out some gray area so raiding was a more enjoyable, fair, and consistent experience for everyone. We made several compromises from what we wanted to happen for the betterment of the server's end game and the spirit of working together. In the end, every guild agreed to the policies that were posted and agreed it was fairest solution to every guild/pug that wanted to raid. We also agreed to make a concerted effort to take the griefing out of the game with each other and continue to have meetings to continue to develop our rules as well as discuss any problems we are having with each other.

At the most recent guild meeting I had proposed a couple deterrents I had thought of to camping. Without naming names, we were told that camping was their way of competing with IB's mobilization and that camp deterrents were not going to be agreed to (at least the ones I presented, which I will go over below). DA made it clear camping is the system that works for them and were not interested in changing it. The general attitude that everyone minus DA took from the meeting is that camping was going to continue and that if something were to be changed it would need to be GM enforced. Every other guild in that meeting agreed camping was a problem we wanted to work on getting fixed.

Right now there are multiple messages coming from different DA officers. This past weekend DA proposed a rotation between IB and DA with the agreement that other guilds were still free to engage the target and if it was say DA's mob and remedy killed it then the next week it would be IB's uncontested from DA. Basically it was a rotation to stay out of each others way and just share spawns each week. The terms from what I understood was it was to go in until sky. DA also made it clear they want to get along with IB, which I thought was great, and I made it clear that regardless I would like to continue to communicate in an effort to make things better. Two things we did not like was the non-involvement of the other guilds who had helped to develop the existing rules and the fact that it was a very temporary solution, which kills competition basically, I never gave a definite no but I did not say yes either. 3 days later I'm told that a written proposal was sent to all the guilds for a rotation except for IB, so any semblance of consistency or any effort to get along, seems out the window based on that. And now today, another DA officer is talking about something else different and several officers I have talked share different opinions on it all. You guys need to get together and decide what you collectively want and stick to it, its the only way anything is going to move forward. Once that happens come talk to me and lets figure this out.

The camp deterrents I proposed were that if two raid forces were in the same zone and a boss mob spawned, that we straight up roll for it, at the time I thought whats a better way to make camping suck than to sit there for 20 hours only to have the force who had been there for an hour win it in a roll. It was pointed out to me that nothing stops them from leaving 1 tracker in the zone and 40 ppl in the adjacent zone. Its a very good point and it probably wouldn't work. The other thought was to enable a roll call if a boss happened to be up and guild A was in the zone....once guild B zoned in they could issue the call whether they were in the zone when the boss spawned or not. If guild A answered the roll call then guild B would issue the timer...this still seems to make sense to me so perhaps in the future this can be added.

So let's rewind back to the original server rules. The biggest gray area is it says in order to "camp, or claim" a spawn you need to have 15 people at the raid target. However the rules do not define "where the raid target is". In our guild agreement rules we eliminated the need to be at the raid target because the idea was a guild would have a timer to clear to a certain spot and engage the target. This was done to help eliminate trains and leapfrogging. We did not think camping like this would occur. Camping is currently done by sitting 15+ at a safe spot in each zone, many of which are AFK or tabbed out playing other games. My perception of the rules when they were created was that if you were going to camp you needed to have 15 people actually at the keyboard and active. I have sent PM's to Developers suggesting where the "raid target" should be moved to in order to try and make sure that happens.

Vox: 3 spawn Ice giant room just beyond the Door
Naggy: Stone Spider room
Inny/Maestro: On the fountain
Draco: In the GY where TTs spawn
CT: In the frightfinger house.

I personally do not have a problem with camping a spawn if x amount of people are really going to be at the keyboard, active, and waiting. I think if we move where you need to be then maintaining the AFK camping will be near impossible to achieve. Those spots aren't perfect but its just something I thought of. Maybe if the mobs who spawn in that area normally, repop when the boss spawns that could work too. I know that's not classic at all but neither is most of what we are here talking about. In regards to defining where the "raid target" is. Its something that the leadership of several other guilds likes so far.

Ultimately, I would like to see an FFA with no trains/KS. As its been discussed GM involvement would be inevitable due to people either truly training/KSing or just outright lying about it. What if the punishments for either of these things were so severe you needed to darn near be 100% certain you are correct in whatever accusation you are trying to make. Let's say in order to request GM involvement you needed 3 people willing to vouch, 1 being an officer. If the people petitioning are found to be untruthful or lying they lose their levels and become level 1? Same goes for whoever is performing the actual offense. If people were to fear the consequence of being wrong, or doing wrong maybe GMs would be called in a lot less...something harsh like this might make someone really question if they are going to go that far. The more Devs are bugged, the less they are Dev'ing and the longer we wait for more content.

In closing, Nizzarr, I'm sorry if this derailed your topic a little bit and I am sorry it was so long. I just wanted to be clear with my explanation. Again, I am open to continue to talk about ideas and solutions, because this is definitely not what I signed up for here. However, I do not think rotation is the logical solution...at least not yet, I think there is still several things we can try first. But by all means lets continue to talk about it. As I said above, please get everyone in DA leadership on the same page and start chipping away at this.

Xzerion

[Taluvill]

OMG so i have like the easiest solution to this whole thing!!

Just make it so that if your afk for more than... lets say, 30 minutes, you get kicked off the server? That way, there will be less camping and more mobilizing.

I say 30 minutes because it will mess with spawns in guk or other things that people like to afk camp and pop in every 20 or so minutes for the kill.

If you could limit the afk kicking rule to the raid zones by some miracle of a coding thing, we could essentially solve all of the issues. Because in reality, the system right now doesnt do anything but work for AFK campers and batphones, and passing role calls.

want to mobilize, "try my product" -- Karsten

Edit: The only problem i can see with my thing is that both top guilds have 15 or so that can actively camp stuff. Raise the numbers to 25 people required to camp, or 30 like snifs said, and in that sense we can retire camping forever. Because i hate it! even though im a druid and will have to camp/track anyways!!

<--- Do not speak for my guild btw

I should have been a mage with 1/3 of the population when the server opened -_-

[Jify]

Originally Posted by Raren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i think its time for DA and IB to start getting along and working shit out this fucking fighting everyday about every fucking mob is turning into bullshit competition is good but lets all be real people here and work shit out

Sorry. I know this goes against the "don't start a flame war" mentality, but COME ON! I can't honestly take your serious bud.

This is coming from the same Raren that joins our vent channel, spams/screams in our ears, and gets banned/kicked on a daily basis. If you wanted to play nice and work stuff out you'd stop acting like a spoiled child. If any members of IB did that they'd be severely reprimanded.

You and Modus alone have stained much of DA's reputation, I've had interaction with many DA members, they are great people! You two, not so much.

Sorry for interrupting the discussion at hand! Please continue!

[Ayen]

IB has this ridiculous fascination with mobilization. They have it in there head that this some how implies skill when you can "mobilize" to a mob. But the sad reality is and what people don't understand its the same thing as camping a mob out. Only your logging out your character in the next zone over or same zone as the next due raid target. Then you wait for a text to log on. Congratulations on being unemployed and available to log on. Dont forget, it takes skill to be unemployed.



Ayen "Dark Ascension"

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by Taluvill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just make it so that if your afk for more than... lets say, 30 minutes, you get kicked off the server? That way, there will be less camping and more mobilizing.

Tabbing in once every 30 minutes, jumping, and tabbing back out won't really solve anything with the extended respawn timers on things. The best solution I feel would end most of the camping on the part of everyone except the trackers.

[Taluvill]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tabbing in once every 30 minutes, jumping, and tabbing back out won't really solve anything with the extended respawn timers on things. The best solution I feel would end most of the camping on the part of everyone except the trackers.

It would, unless you make it 30 required active members to camp stuff. 30 people cant honestly sit there and tab every 30 mins.

If you could limit it to just raid zones, then 15 minutes would be sufficient.

[Xzerion]

Taluvil,

Thats a great idea but a g15 keyboard or some other macro program im sure could get around it. I kicked that idea around myself.