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  #11  
Old 04-27-2021, 03:33 PM
Jimjam Jimjam is offline
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This makes sense in context of what we know about mitigation. Once you’ve got enough ac to max out your mitigation against a mob adding more ac will do nothing.

This is the other side of the same coin - once you’ve got enough attack to minimise a mobs mitigation then adding more attack (through strength) shouldn’t do anything.

Very good findings!

I wonder how narrow the window is for where adding str to a pet will actually improve results. I would expect there is a similar cut off against deep reds where you simply can’t add enough str to begin to break through the mitigation.

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Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
So having tested the lowest level animation versus similarly low level mobs already, I decided flip the script a bit and test out the highest level pet from the 49 summon, which is around level 39ish, on some lower level mobs.

first was some level 15 mobs....
Unbuffed, or buffed, the average damage was not statistically different. I only did about 100 of each, and soon realized they were nearly identical for average damage per hit so I jumped over to doing some level 25 mobs. Once again, did about 100 buffed/unbuffed and had the same realization that there was no significant difference.

I was scratching my head a bit at that point and decided to fight a a mob nearly identical in level to the pet, around level 40.

I haven't completely looked through the data at this moment and have only counted the number of misses and the number of times the pet hit for max damage,

No buff: 112 misses, 38 hit for max damage(52).
buff(+50 str) : 64 misses , 58 for max damage(52).

This suggests that the "to hit chance" was already essentially capped at low level and the additional STR didn't appreciably change it. At higher levels it does appear to change it, prolly because it's not yet capped.

Edit: it also suggests that perhaps when there is a large gap between your pet and a mob the bonus given for increased damage is so high it seems to also cap out, rendering additional STR superfluous.

Unfortunately, I didn't look at all at the level 15 or 25 test accuracy/hit rates, as i had already assumed that STR wouldn't have affect the rates given the prior low level test. Woops.
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  #12  
Old 04-27-2021, 03:53 PM
starkind starkind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
This makes sense in context of what we know about mitigation. Once you’ve got enough ac to max out your mitigation against a mob adding more ac will do nothing.

This is the other side of the same coin - once you’ve got enough attack to minimise a mobs mitigation then adding more attack (through strength) shouldn’t do anything.

Very good findings!

I wonder how narrow the window is for where adding str to a pet will actually improve results. I would expect there is a similar cut off against deep reds where you simply can’t add enough str to begin to break through the mitigation.



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It will probably always be beneficial on high blues-red cons.

Probably pointless after 4 lvls. Especially with pets.

Buffing an already 125 str twinked player probably doesn't do much more for them except vs the redder mobs. This is one reason elves are amazing and EQ is so great.
  #13  
Old 04-28-2021, 12:48 PM
unsunghero unsunghero is offline
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This is a bit related, and a question I was going to ask in the caster forums: at what level should I start lugging around a bunch of torches to give to humanoid pets to make them dual wield? I’m level 37 currently, haven’t been doing it

Second question: I only need to give them 1 torch correct? I heard that it automatically goes in offhand and then they main hand punch and offhand swing the torch? Or would I need to always give the charmed pet 2 torches?
  #14  
Old 04-28-2021, 04:24 PM
Vivitron Vivitron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
This is a bit related, and a question I was going to ask in the caster forums: at what level should I start lugging around a bunch of torches to give to humanoid pets to make them dual wield? I’m level 37 currently, haven’t been doing it

Second question: I only need to give them 1 torch correct? I heard that it automatically goes in offhand and then they main hand punch and offhand swing the torch? Or would I need to always give the charmed pet 2 torches?
One torch, start now. I think npcs first get dual wield skill closer to the 20ish range, but you'll see it make a progressively bigger difference on higher level mobs. It works on just about anything that can't be hit by charm animal, which may be broader than what you think of as humanoid. For example it works with biles, wurms, kobolds, elementals. When in doubt use the torch anyway.

For curiosities sake you can give them a torch and a weapon or two different weapons and compare the hit messages to see how much they dw, e.g "hits" vs "crushes".
Last edited by Vivitron; 04-28-2021 at 04:33 PM..
  #15  
Old 04-28-2021, 06:12 PM
unsunghero unsunghero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
One torch, start now. I think npcs first get dual wield skill closer to the 20ish range, but you'll see it make a progressively bigger difference on higher level mobs. It works on just about anything that can't be hit by charm animal, which may be broader than what you think of as humanoid. For example it works with biles, wurms, kobolds, elementals. When in doubt use the torch anyway.

For curiosities sake you can give them a torch and a weapon or two different weapons and compare the hit messages to see how much they dw, e.g "hits" vs "crushes".
Ty for info, will do
  #16  
Old 04-29-2021, 09:45 AM
Jimjam Jimjam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
One torch, start now. I think npcs first get dual wield skill closer to the 20ish range, but you'll see it make a progressively bigger difference on higher level mobs. It works on just about anything that can't be hit by charm animal, which may be broader than what you think of as humanoid. For example it works with biles, wurms, kobolds, elementals. When in doubt use the torch anyway.

For curiosities sake you can give them a torch and a weapon or two different weapons and compare the hit messages to see how much they dw, e.g "hits" vs "crushes".
on a loosely related matter, I find is interesting how often low level pets will double attack (not duel wield). Having the low level pet double attack for 23 is really glorious.

On the subject of accuracy, as discussed you can't really boost it per se, but you should be able to lower the target's avoidance (which essentially boosts accuracy by proxy) by lowering the target's agility. I've always imagined keeping shallow breath / equivalent active on the higher con mobs really helps the pet land more hits, but perhaps this is an illusion granted by the smidgen more dps the spell brings from magic damage.
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Last edited by Jimjam; 04-29-2021 at 10:12 AM..
  #17  
Old 04-29-2021, 10:45 AM
starkind starkind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
on a loosely related matter, I find is interesting how often low level pets will double attack (not duel wield). Having the low level pet double attack for 23 is really glorious.

On the subject of accuracy, as discussed you can't really boost it per se, but you should be able to lower the target's avoidance (which essentially boosts accuracy by proxy) by lowering the target's agility. I've always imagined keeping shallow breath / equivalent active on the higher con mobs really helps the pet land more hits, but perhaps this is an illusion granted by the smidgen more dps the spell brings from magic damage.
I believe all this and 2cnd this and DMN's opinions in this thread.

It's magic.

Just cast your shallow breath on ppl and move on!
  #18  
Old 04-29-2021, 11:29 AM
Jimjam Jimjam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starkind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I believe all this and 2cnd this and DMN's opinions in this thread.

It's magic.

Just cast your shallow breath on ppl and move on!
You may call the game mechanics magic, and they may as well be, but I’ve applied to the school of arcane sciences and hope to don my stained robe real soon.
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  #19  
Old 04-29-2021, 11:54 AM
starkind starkind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
You may call the game mechanics magic, and they may as well be, but I’ve applied to the school of arcane sciences and hope to don my stained robe real soon.
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
  #20  
Old 05-08-2021, 11:51 PM
Ashenden Ashenden is offline
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Please send more pet/mob buff research, I thirst for it. This thread is fantastic. Could try letting a mob beat on you with and without cripple.
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