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  #11  
Old 11-21-2017, 07:47 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
This is a good point Loramin, but when the prime determiner of repression is a non gender attribute like class (or in the new world, more likely race? I hear you guys over the pond are pretty racist? Is that true, or is that just me being racist?) then I guess it is easy to miss that bigger picture perspective.
America is a big place, so I definitely wouldn't make generalizations like "you guys over the pond are pretty racist". Even in the south the vast vast majority of people aren't racist (at least not overtly so).

But then you've got institutionalized racism. For instance, even black cops pick on black people more because they, like everyone else, have been trained by society to think "criminal" when they see a black person. That sort of racism is definitely pervasive in America ... but I don't think other countries escape it either. Are Muslim immigrants treated equally to other UK citizens?

Ultimately, in America or anywhere else, as long as there are racial disparities in a society that society will need minority rights groups to push it towards greater equality.

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Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Their may always be feminism -- but there will also be a point where it literally causes more harm than good.
How can fighting for equality ever do (real) harm? Like sure if men get paid twice as much as women, and society corrects that, then men are "harmed" by getting less pay ... but every cent they lose goes to a woman who (by definition) deserved it more, so overall it's a net gain for society. If women started making more than men then that would be real harm ... but that wouldn't truly be feminism because feminism is about fighting for equality, not for either gender to be better off.

For historical comparison purposes, when did the Irish/Italian/Scottish/etc. rights activists jump the shark and start causing harm by advocating for their rights? I'd argue never, because legitimately fighting for equality doesn't hurt anyone except the people benefiting from the unfair system. And then once they achieved true equality in society they stopped being necessary, which is why no one ever hears about Irish-American equality groups in America anymore.

Hopefully someday the same will be true for feminists and minority advocates ... but I don't see that day coming anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The power struggle is about class and money...not men and women.
I'd maybe express that instead as "the power struggle (between men and women, dominant races and minority ones, etc.) is expressed differently depending on the class/money of the participants." A woman from a rich background is likely going to respond to harassment differently from a woman who is poor, but both definitely experience harassment caused by a power imbalance.
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Last edited by loramin; 11-21-2017 at 07:49 PM..
  #12  
Old 11-21-2017, 07:56 PM
Pokesan Pokesan is offline
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my theory is gamergate broke alot of dorks minds and that is why you made this thread
  #13  
Old 11-21-2017, 08:07 PM
Lulz~Sect Lulz~Sect is offline
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  #14  
Old 11-21-2017, 08:11 PM
maskedmelon maskedmelon is offline
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i don't understand OP :c are you suggesting millennials are not quite so irredeemably daft as we put on? (i think im a millennial, maybe im the one before that... how I find out?)
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  #15  
Old 11-21-2017, 08:14 PM
JurisDictum JurisDictum is offline
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Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How can fighting for equality ever do (real) harm? Like sure if men get paid twice as much as women, and society corrects that, then men are "harmed" by getting less pay ... but every cent they lose goes to a woman who (by definition) deserved it more, so overall it's a net gain for society. If women started making more than men then that would be real harm ... but that wouldn't truly be feminism because feminism is about fighting for equality, not for either gender to be better off.
There is an important strategy for controlling people called divide and conquer. You get men from blue color humble backgrounds jealous of white collar women and get both those groups into 2 separate political constituencies. As long as one is Democrat and the other is Republican in America -- you have successfully split the vote. Two low income groups are now convinced that the problem is men or women are getting a better deal -- and thats why you can't afford anything

So social justice movements -- all over the world -- are constantly used to keep certain groups in power. The CIA supports social justice movements around the world when it serves a political purpose for us. A lot of terrorist movements, double as social justice ideology.

They aren't always positive. We have just got that impression for here in the U.S. -- because our movements usually are. I think feminism has been. But I'm concerned by a growing trend of corporate Democrats using feminism and racism to split the vote of poor people and turning America into a choice between Conservative or Conservative-light.

Free speech is good. Is it good when Milo goes on stage and dishonestly accuses trans people of more likely to sexually assult others -- and then cries about free speech afterwords?

Nah that sucks...sure we need free speech -- but a big free speech movement over Milo's right to incite hatred toward trans people is probably a bad thing not a good thing.
  #16  
Old 11-21-2017, 08:18 PM
JurisDictum JurisDictum is offline
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Originally Posted by Pokesan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
my theory is gamergate broke alot of dorks minds and that is why you made this thread
Those guys were idiots. "It's ok to grab a girls ass if you play fighting games."

So I'm completely wrong based on gamergate alone...but its important to note that most people agree anti-feminist gamer geeks are completely pathetic and have no social status. We might think otherwise -- but every time one of these guys gets a girlfriend they seem to 180 on all that wannabe macho alpha shit.

Edit: You can read my post as anti-feminist.. but its not supposed to be. It's more like: "Hey feminists...make yourselves more relevant to most Millennials."
Last edited by JurisDictum; 11-21-2017 at 08:25 PM..
  #17  
Old 11-21-2017, 09:32 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
There is an important strategy for controlling people called divide and conquer. You get men from blue color humble backgrounds jealous of white collar women and get both those groups into 2 separate political constituencies. As long as one is Democrat and the other is Republican in America -- you have successfully split the vote. Two low income groups are now convinced that the problem is men or women are getting a better deal -- and thats why you can't afford anything

So social justice movements -- all over the world -- are constantly used to keep certain groups in power. The CIA supports social justice movements around the world when it serves a political purpose for us. A lot of terrorist movements, double as social justice ideology.

They aren't always positive. We have just got that impression for here in the U.S. -- because our movements usually are. I think feminism has been. But I'm concerned by a growing trend of corporate Democrats using feminism and racism to split the vote of poor people and turning America into a choice between Conservative or Conservative-light.

Free speech is good. Is it good when Milo goes on stage and dishonestly accuses trans people of more likely to sexually assult others -- and then cries about free speech afterwords?

Nah that sucks...sure we need free speech -- but a big free speech movement over Milo's right to incite hatred toward trans people is probably a bad thing not a good thing.
Ok identity politics are definitely a thing, so I see your point. But I'd caution against a baby/bathwater scenario. In other words, just because political parties, the CIA, and whoever else tries to use rights movements to their benefit, that doesn't mean you shouldn't have rights movements ... it just means the leaders of those movements need to be smart and political (which you need to be anyway to lead such a movement).
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  #18  
Old 11-21-2017, 09:34 PM
mickmoranis mickmoranis is offline
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feminism is irrelevant because we are already equal
  #19  
Old 11-21-2017, 10:02 PM
mickmoranis mickmoranis is offline
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Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
But then you've got institutionalized racism. For instance, even black cops pick on black people more because they, like everyone else, have been trained by society to think "criminal" when they see a black person.
But when crime is disproportionately perpetrated by black people, and black criminals dress exactly the same as black people, aka as a thug, and police have been using profiling to both protect themselves and us, as the central ability for them to investigate and stop crime for the last 100 years, what do you expect to happen?

Hear me out... I know your teeth are grinding at the perceived racism above.... It's not though.

The left has this ability to be like, "well I think racism is real so cops must only operate because of institutional racism"

No, they operate the way they do around black people, because of STATISTICS, and they use those statistics to police. Then someone finds out that they do that, and they think its institutional racism.

The number of institutional racism vs regular profiling is drastically less than. its just modern libs cant tell the difference and think what they read on buzzfeed is the truth.

If you think the science behind profiling is wrong, then watch Mindhunter on netflix and you'll see its how we use it to prevent murder very often.

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Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
That sort of racism is definitely pervasive in America ... but I don't think other countries escape it either. Are Muslim immigrants treated equally to other UK citizens?
They are treated worse in most contries that accept them, because they are immigrants and that right off the bat in racist europe is a mark against you, and also they are entitled and create nasty crime, which gives them a bad reputation, and oh what happens? The above, the police profile them, people missinterperate that to institutional racism, they cry that its not fair, they give up trying, because, WHY try when the institution is against you!

The spiral continues. Crime goes up, riots happen, more profiling, less hope yadda yadda etc etc.

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Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Ultimately, in America or anywhere else, as long as there are racial disparities in a society that society will need minority rights groups to push it towards greater equality.
There are solutions besides demanding some sort of change in the way other people operate.. like idk, stop acting like a victim and start taking responsibility for your own actions? The black community in america suffers from this very thing. They feel like there is no point in trying, because WE tell them the system is rigged against them. Why would you try when the whole system is rigged against you?!

Then what happens when a black person works on them self? THEY EXCEL they do wonderful, they fit RIGHT into society...

WHY?

Because america is NOT a racist country. The system isn't rigged against them. They are free and equal just like anyone else. That's why.

But they're conditioned to think they are second class citizens, by even the very minority groups that are trying to help them. The minority activist groups say that they're being screwed, so agian, why try?! Not until I get what I deserve!

Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
How can fighting for equality ever do (real) harm?
Exactly like I said above, by telling a group of people that they are being screwed, when they are not, you discourage them actually working towards the goal that they hope to achieve, independence. You make them dependent on other people. The black communities in america, suffered GREATLY from this (not saying they didnt from a whole bunch of fucked up shit pre civil rights movement/slavery) and they suffer from it every day today.

When you tell someone they dont have a shot, they dont try to take one.

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Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Like sure if men get paid twice as much as women, and society corrects that, then men are "harmed" by getting less pay
This is a myth, myths like this create animosity between two groups that up until then were getting along. That is harmful to the end goal of equality.


Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Hopefully someday the same will be true for feminists and minority advocates ... but I don't see that day coming anytime soon.
We have, the civil rights movement got us there. But our generation has had such a failed educational system, that nobody today KNOWS that this happened. They now wander around reading headlines from buzzfeed and huff po and NYT and CNN and think that whatever they read in that poorly written op-ed is true.

They get mad, they fight, they create animosity, they shoot themselves in the foot.

Why? So some media corporations can make profits off advertising. Its sick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I'd maybe express that instead as "the power struggle (between men and women, dominant races and minority ones, etc.) is expressed differently depending on the class/money of the participants." A woman from a rich background is likely going to respond to harassment differently from a woman who is poor, but both definitely experience harassment caused by a power imbalance.
The thing is you have people going, "look at these immigrants, they come to this country, they have no money, they work super hard doing 3 low paying job, just to make ends meet." But what theyre not telling you is theyre living in fucking CALIFORNIA and they have a hosue with like 17 fucking people in it, half of them are kids (aka dreamers) that they have to provide for and on top of that, they SEND MONEY HOME...

OF COURSE you cant get ahead when you have that many dependents lol, but then to say its the system, its institutional racism, its rigged, to say that THAT is the reason? That is just sad, and it enables their bad behavior.

If you want to get ahead in america, you have to work hard of course, but you have to work SMART as well.

Telling people that the system is rigged against them, or that there is institutional racism holding them back, or that men are going to cheat them out of their hard work, doesn't help. It enables the ability for the gap (that we solved with the civil rights movement and woman's rights movement in the 60's and 70's) to grow and grow.

You dont ahve to agree, but lor, i feel like you might be able to at least understand why the cause's on the left are not worth fighting for.

They exist because of boredom because we live in a good society that allowed for our generation to forget their history and want some drama in an otherwise working and unexciting political climate.

They exist to elect politicians and to make the corporations cash so they can dump money onto those same politicians to get rid of things like net neutrality or allow them to build a housing development.

They exist simply, because Americans are dumb.
Last edited by mickmoranis; 11-21-2017 at 10:24 PM..
  #20  
Old 11-21-2017, 10:19 PM
AzzarTheGod AzzarTheGod is offline
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Also buddy let me tell you something. There's nothing wrong with marrying an accountant with ass. If y'all are in your 20s and 30s you better not put a ring on a girl who doesn't squat at the gym
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