combat stats, proc rates, and a lot of questions

[bobjonesp99]

trying to better understand the combat statistics in p99. i have a general understanding of weapon damage formulas and proc rates, but there is some things that aren't very clearly defined that i am trying to get a better understanding of. specifically i am talking about a warrior in this example, but presumably the same applies to other classes (with some minor exceptions).

proc rate:

i have read and understand that proc rates are defined on a per minute basis. as i understand, they are normalized to your 'per swing' rate, ignoring things like haste, weapon delay, and double/triple attack.

i have read that proc rate is 0.5 to 2.0 ppm from 85 dex to 255. this would imply 85 to 170 dex equated to 0.5 to 1.5 ppm and 170 to 255 dex equating to 1.5 to 2.0 ppm.

i have read that proc rate is dex/170+0.5 ppm. this would mean 0 dex equate to 0.5 ppm, 85 dex to 1.0 ppm, 170 dex to 1.5 ppm, and 255 dex to 2.0ppm.

can anyone confirm either of the above statements to be accurate with some level of certainty?

i have read 'the secondary proc rate is equal to half the primary proc rate'. is it actually half? or is it based on your dual wield chance? in other words, if you just reached dual wield level, are you actually getting half the proc rate for the secondary? i have also heard some people suggest that their secondary seems to proc MORE than 50% of the primary... which begs the question of is it based on dual wield chance.


dual wield:

i have read the formula for dual wield is [dual wield skill + level] / [max skill]. i have read the max skill could be anywhere from 400 to 600 depending on class and that is is unclear what is used in P99.

assuming max skill 600 means a level 60 warrior with 240 dual wield skill would dual wield 50% of the time.

assuming max skill 400 means a level 60 warrior with 240 dual wield skill would dual wield 75% of the time.

can anyone confirm either of the above statements to be accurate with some level of certainty?

another question is, does the dual wield attack act as a 'proc' on the primary attack? i.e. is it that the dual wield is attacking only when a successful dual wield is rolled on the primary (and then separately adjusting the number of attacks to account for the damage/delay of the secondary)? or does the dual wield act as a delay modifier (i.e. like haste in reverse) reducing the secondary delay by dividing by the dual wield modifier?


double attack / triple attack:

parsing this is all complicated due to double/triple attack which adds another couple variables.

i have read the formula for double attack is [double attack skill] / [max skill x 1.05]. i have read the max skill could be anywhere from 400 to 600 depending on class and that is is unclear what is used in P99.

assuming its 600 means a level 60 warrior with 245 double attack skill would double attack 38.888% of the time.

assuming its 400 means a level 60 warrior with 245 double attack skill would double attack 58.333% of the time.

although not a skill that you can train, most warriors confidently state that triple attack is a real thing. i have read the formula for triple attack is [double attack skill x 0.5] / [max skill x 1.05]. this implies half the rate for triple attack as double attack.

assuming its 600 means a level 60 warrior with 245 double attack skill would triple attack 19.444% of the time.

assuming its 400 means a level 60 warrior with 245 double attack skill would double attack 29.167% of the time.

one thing that is unclear to me, is if triple attacks only apply to primary weapon attacks, or also apply to secondary weapon attacks. from my limited parsing, i did not see any triple attacks on the secondary, but i am still unclear if that is accurate or a sample bias. i am also not entirely convinced triple attacks are an actual thing for dual wield weapons and may just look that way due to hasted delays < 10 giving multiple primary rounds (with successful double attacks) in a single second. most warriors seem convinced it is a thing, so i have included it for completeness and discussion.


some parse data:

i parsed a level 60 warrior with max skills, 58 percent haste, and was equipping a primary infestation (9/18) + secondary frostbringer (12/22).

across the 83 second fight i saw 1085 primary attempts compared to 585 secondary attempts; keep in mind total attempts includes dual wield chance, double attack chance, and triple attack chance.

based on those weapons delays and haste i am calculating an estimated ~54.5 primary swings per minute and ~42.9 secondary swings per minute; keep in mind this does not account for dual wield chance, double attack chance, and triple attack chance.

from the actual attempts per minute for primary and secondary, i can back calculate the attempts per swing.

what i saw was that attempts per swing for the primary was ~1.54 and for the secondary was approximately ~1.13; keep in mind this is independent of haste and the delay of the weapons... it is calculated as dual wield chance (100% for primary) + dual wield chance x double attack chance + dual wield chance x triple attack chance.

this results in a non-unique formula since we don't know exactly what the dual wield chance, double attack chance, and triple attack chance are due to the unknown 'max skill' used in those calculations. we can assume values and try and come up with estimates. i was able to get a very close approximation to the damage per second, and number of attempts for primary and secondary by assuming max skill = 400 for dual wield and double attack, and assuming that triple attack is not real (only observed to be true due to hasted weapon delays < 10). this implies a 58% double attack chance, 75% dual wield chance. that results in primary attempts per swing of ~1.58 and secondary attempts per swing of 1.19. have a 75% dual wield chance would also give some weight to the prior statement that some warriors suggest proc rate for secondary weapons is >50% of the primary weapon.

all of that said, i am sure someone else has gone down this rabbit hole and can provide some additional insight to many of the questions above.


white damage hate:

one last question regarding white damage hate.

i have read the formula for white damage hate is [weapon damage + bonus weapon damage] / [weapon delay]. i understand this is independent of player attack rating, target ac, randomness in actual weapon damage, and any damage mitigation that gets applied. i also understand this is impacted by haste. my question is, do double/triple attacks get accounted for as well? or is it just the initial 'swing'? as you can see it all ties into the above calculation.

i look forward to the potential discussions!

[Allishia]

Everything is random /nod...

Proc 5x in a row one minute, then sometimes go an entire mob w/o a single proc.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I am not 100% sure on this (if someone could confirm that would be great), but for a time there was also a proc adjustment on certain weapons to prevent them from being too overpowered. This means they would actually proc less than average. I think this was still not common, my brain says Earthshaker has/had a proc restriction. So if those are still in place that would be another consideration to look at, but in general it should be the same. I doubt Frostbringer or Infestation has that.

I would just keep doing parses since you have the capability to do so. For proc research I would just focus on counting the procs specifically, instead of trying to count the white text, since it does have a lot of extra swings due to double attack, tripple attack, etc. As long as you have two different procs in your hands, you can easily sum up an average amount of procs per minute for both hands with enough data.

[Snaggles]

I considered parsing the same delay 1hb and 1hs (like splintered club and rusty short sword) with my ranger for this same curiosity. Offhand swings in general are quite a bit less unless you have a slow AF mainhand. It's part of the reason with the upgrade to 2h on blue (scaling dmg bonus via delay) you better have amazing 1h's to consider them for dps. At least comparing apples to apples.

Proc rate is PPM as you mentioned. MH will proc twice as much on average but as Allishia said random is as random does. No weapons proc more than others. Slow weapons will have a higher proc per swing average though (earthshaker etc) but if you time it per minute they wont proc more than a quick weapon. On average.

White aggro as I understand is possible damage done which includes your damage bonus. Basically dps minus the actual dps. The prob is most the best dps 1h's have low aggro procs or none at all so it's something to consider. The Feverblade is one of the few that strikes a good balance.

Edit: All weapon proc rates are normalized on blue. Most aggro capped (relatively) for spells you cannot cast. Some are flagged non-pet weapons like the Earthshaker and weighted axe.

[SlankyLanky]

Originally Posted by Allishia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everything is random /nod...

Proc 5x in a row one minute, then sometimes go an entire mob w/o a single proc.

i think this is important to hear for people wanting to roll a new war or people who are getting to the level where its actually important for the tank to be the one whos getting hit. dex makes a big difference, but so does rng when it comes to getting a proc on a mob.

[Allishia]

Originally Posted by SlankyLanky [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i think this is important to hear for people wanting to roll a new war or people who are getting to the level where its actually important for the tank to be the one whos getting hit. dex makes a big difference, but so does rng when it comes to getting a proc on a mob.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Forlorn...of_Rolfron_Zek

Get those, can usually land 2 clicks before vindi gets in camp. Most tov mobs can land 1-2 before dragon turns on me from the bumpers...cheap recharge too.

I'm max 255 dex and procs are still random. Clickys are your best bet lol. When mob turns to eat a monk that doesn't know how to fd, you can pop another click [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[jdmchris]

You’re trying way too hard bro

[Videri]

Originally Posted by bobjonesp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i have read that proc rate is 0.5 to 2.0 ppm from 85 dex to 255. this would imply 85 to 170 dex equated to 0.5 to 1.5 ppm and 170 to 255 dex equating to 1.5 to 2.0 ppm.

No. It's 0.5 to 2.0 ppm from ZERO dex to 255 dex.

Originally Posted by bobjonesp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i have read that proc rate is dex/170+0.5 ppm. this would mean 0 dex equate to 0.5 ppm, 85 dex to 1.0 ppm, 170 dex to 1.5 ppm, and 255 dex to 2.0ppm.

Yes. You got it right in this part.

[Videri]

Originally Posted by bobjonesp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i have read 'the secondary proc rate is equal to half the primary proc rate'. is it actually half? or is it based on your dual wield chance? in other words, if you just reached dual wield level, are you actually getting half the proc rate for the secondary? i have also heard some people suggest that their secondary seems to proc MORE than 50% of the primary... which begs the question of is it based on dual wield chance.

Don't mix up dual wield chance with it. It's like so:

Let's say you're wielding a 10/30 weapon in each hand. That means you swing every 3 seconds. That means you swing how many times per minute? 20.

Let's say you have 85 dex, so 1 proc per minute mainhand. Divide 1 proc per minute by 20 swings per minute and you get 0.05 procs per swing; in other words, 5% chance to proc per swing.

Each time you swing your mainhand weapon, you have 5% chance to proc.
Each time you swing your offhand weapon, you have a 2.5% chance to proc.

So...don't mix up dual wield chance with this. It's just a percentage that is applied every time you swing. And remember, you might still proc three times in a row!! It's just probability!


HOWEVER, if you get slowed, let's say by 50%, now you're gonna swing half as much...but you'll still have the same procs-per-minute...so now you'll proc twice as much per swing. 10% chance to proc on each mainhand swing, 5% chance to proc on each offhand swing. See what I mean?

[bobjonesp99]

Originally Posted by Videri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't mix up dual wield chance with it. It's like so:

Let's say you're wielding a 10/30 weapon in each hand. That means you swing every 3 seconds. That means you swing how many times per minute? 20.

Let's say you have 85 dex, so 1 proc per minute mainhand. Divide 1 proc per minute by 20 swings per minute and you get 0.05 procs per swing; in other words, 5% chance to proc per swing.

Each time you swing your mainhand weapon, you have 5% chance to proc.
Each time you swing your offhand weapon, you have a 2.5% chance to proc.

So...don't mix up dual wield chance with this. It's just a percentage that is applied every time you swing. And remember, you might still proc three times in a row!! It's just probability!


HOWEVER, if you get slowed, let's say by 50%, now you're gonna swing half as much...but you'll still have the same procs-per-minute...so now you'll proc twice as much per swing. 10% chance to proc on each mainhand swing, 5% chance to proc on each offhand swing. See what I mean?

i understand the distinction between procs per minute and procs per swing and how the game normalizes delay such that your proc per minute is constant (either haste or slow).

what i am saying is that, your secondary weapon swings less frequently than your mainhand and as a result the procs per minute of the secondary weapon is less than that of your mainhand. log data for hours of fighting green cons on a 60 warrior with two different procing weapons shows the frequency of the secondary weapons proc was ~54% of the primary weapons proc. based on the formula for dual wield chance on a 60 warrior, it calculates as ~50% chance.