P99 Open source

[Jibartik]

Like most things, if you build it they will come. Like the UI [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I made it for me but hoped that if it was quality that they would take it, it was a gamble and it payed off!

Im very happy that we got it in <3 But it was a labor of love for me anyway.

God I love supply and demand.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like most things, if you build it they will come. Like the UI [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I made it for me but hoped that if it was quality that they would take it, it was a gamble and it payed off!

Im very happy that we got it in <3 But it was a labor of love for me anyway.

God I love supply and demand.

Yes! Big up yourself!

[azxten]

Originally Posted by branamil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's not how open source works. The person in charge of the code can approve or deny someone's submission (pull request). It's not as if it's 100 people tweaking things whenever they feel like it.

Now, open source would be a good idea because p99 seems awfully slow and quiet about their updates these days especially compared to other servers. It would also be a shame if the leads stopped caring about the server and no one else could start a new one.

Yeah that has been my gripe with P99. I've offered to fix things and write code but the answer is basically "if you care enough you'll figure it out and make a bug report and show us the code changes" or something along those lines. It has also been said "YOU try writing C++ code, it's not easy!" or whatever. So you're basically left to go spend your time making EQEmu changes that may not even be transferable to P99, then you have a bug report and hope someone responds, etc. Except it's obvious that isn't how it works. It's more like you need to go hang out on IRC or Discord or whatever and buddy buddy with people and all that bullshit if you ever want a chance to contribute or even worse go through the Guide program doing tedious bullshit. This is based on anecdotes I've read.

There are hundreds of developers who play on P99 and would contribute but there is no contribution process. Everything is tightly held and controlled for seemingly no reason. For example I make a "bug forum" suggestion that maybe in the year of our Lord 2021 we should be using a bug TRACKER not a bug FORUM for tracking P99 bugs. That way people aren't resubmitting bugs and finding out there is a 3 year old bug report with the same info and no one has anything to say about why it isn't getting fixed. Is it too hard to fix? Not enough proof it needs to be fixed? Nothing. The community gets no input on what bugs are bothering them or even insight into what bugs exist and why they aren't fixed. Is there any response to the bug tracker idea? No. Is there any response to the vast majority of bugs in the bug forum that have evidence? No.

Everyone wouldn't be just arbitrarily making code changes. You fork the code, make your changes, prove they're good and submit it for merge into the master branch reviewed by Nilbog, Rogean, lead devs, etc. This INCLUDES data, zone files, and anything else which can also be managed by versioning tools in this same way.

It seems the only reason this isn't being done is because the information is "secret" but why exactly? Obviously it's their choice but why? Everyone on P99 is known and rehashed now. The project is basically stale. Also a lot of the value on P99 is whatever system they have setup to recreate the patches along classic timeline. That whole part doesn't need to be made public to allow the army of nerds who play here to improve the mechanics, quests, etc.

Like I said it seems rather strange because P99 will die eventually either from stagnating due to this kind of ridiculously slow progress or legal reasons. If the goal is to recreate classic EQ things would be coming along a lot better if people were encouraged to contribute and community was leveraged to help rather than told to wait endlessly.

Here is how you contribute to P99, this one post has all the info from 12 years ago:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=6897

I following that process and proposed revised code in the channeling bug reports thread and got no response. Even if my code is absolute shit for whatever reason a, "Hey, thanks for following the intended process and trying to help submit a code change, your code is shit though, better luck next time." would be nice.

I don't do that because I KNOW it's just ignored. There is this constant lamentation of the lack of help, there are only a few devs, they're volunteers, blah blah blah, but the only effort towards allowing community contribution is a 12 year old bug forum post that is frankly obvious bullshit and is not how you go about becoming an approved developer or getting changes made.

As an side when I reverse engineered the spells file to prove we could change spell effects that was eventually included but why? Things are so arbitrarily chosen for even minimal response. What is the incentive to put in the effort? The spells file change actually took me minimal effort, I put more time into researching the channeling issue, reviewing the code, and talking to others in the bug thread about it. Why bother when it's so unclear if your work will ever get even a passing mention from someone who can use it?

Jibartik talks about UI changes and even mentions "it was a gamble", it shouldn't be a gamble that you invest time in changes and just have to hope it's considered. He even mentions he made it for himself. Well, I can't make channeling source code changes for myself and hope it pays off. There is no use for the work if it just gets ignored. If I'm going to make channeling source changes "for myself" that means I might as well scrape the P99 data and just recreate everything myself and not even bother trying to contribute anything. That is the level of commitment, to me, that I'd have to make for it to be worth it to make any changes that can't be applied without P99 staff otherwise it's just wasted effort like 90% of the bug forum posts which are ignored for years.

P99 is great but man is this shit frustrating and seemingly dumb as fuck. We would have a 10x better server if we got a better contribution pipeline than a 12 year old bug forum post that isn't true.

[starkind]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah that has been my gripe with P99. I've offered to fix things and write code but the answer is basically "if you care enough you'll figure it out and make a bug report and show us the code changes" or something along those lines. It has also been said "YOU try writing C++ code, it's not easy!" or whatever. So you're basically left to go spend your time making EQEmu changes that may not even be transferable to P99, then you have a bug report and hope someone responds, etc. Except it's obvious that isn't how it works. It's more like you need to go hang out on IRC or Discord or whatever and buddy buddy with people and all that bullshit if you ever want a chance to contribute or even worse go through the Guide program doing tedious bullshit. This is based on anecdotes I've read.

There are hundreds of developers who play on P99 and would contribute but there is no contribution process. Everything is tightly held and controlled for seemingly no reason. For example I make a "bug forum" suggestion that maybe in the year of our Lord 2021 we should be using a bug TRACKER not a bug FORUM for tracking P99 bugs. That way people aren't resubmitting bugs and finding out there is a 3 year old bug report with the same info and no one has anything to say about why it isn't getting fixed. Is it too hard to fix? Not enough proof it needs to be fixed? Nothing. The community gets no input on what bugs are bothering them or even insight into what bugs exist and why they aren't fixed. Is there any response to the bug tracker idea? No. Is there any response to the vast majority of bugs in the bug forum that have evidence? No.

Everyone wouldn't be just arbitrarily making code changes. You fork the code, make your changes, prove they're good and submit it for merge into the master branch reviewed by Nilbog, Rogean, lead devs, etc. This INCLUDES data, zone files, and anything else which can also be managed by versioning tools in this same way.

It seems the only reason this isn't being done is because the information is "secret" but why exactly? Obviously it's their choice but why? Everyone on P99 is known and rehashed now. The project is basically stale. Also a lot of the value on P99 is whatever system they have setup to recreate the patches along classic timeline. That whole part doesn't need to be made public to allow the army of nerds who play here to improve the mechanics, quests, etc.

Like I said it seems rather strange because P99 will die eventually either from stagnating due to this kind of ridiculously slow progress or legal reasons. If the goal is to recreate classic EQ things would be coming along a lot better if people were encouraged to contribute and community was leveraged to help rather than told to wait endlessly.

Here is how you contribute to P99, this one post has all the info from 12 years ago:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=6897

I following that process and proposed revised code in the channeling bug reports thread and got no response. Even if my code is absolute shit for whatever reason a, "Hey, thanks for following the intended process and trying to help submit a code change, your code is shit though, better luck next time." would be nice.

I don't do that because I KNOW it's just ignored. There is this constant lamentation of the lack of help, there are only a few devs, they're volunteers, blah blah blah, but the only effort towards allowing community contribution is a 12 year old bug forum post that is frankly obvious bullshit and is not how you go about becoming an approved developer or getting changes made.

Bro, look, lookatchu bro, BRO.

Like, bro, do you even code Bro!?

[Elrood]

Just out of curiosity, what language is EQ's code written in? I think once I heard Perl?

[azxten]

I'm going through this retarded EQEmu installer process again just to validate if channeling is client side or not. It's 2021 maybe we should just have an EQEmu docker container so no one has to install this again. One docker command and your server is up on the Loginserver.

I have a feeling I'm going to find out that channeling is NOT on the client side and that has been a red herring the entire time made up by a random no life Enchanter who shall remain nameless.

[azxten]

https://github.com/dbsanfte/eqemu-server-docker

Dolalin's eqemu Docker image home. Builds a standalone Docker image of the EQEmu Server.

True EverQuest hero.

[starkind]

In 2021 you have p99 wiki
And three live servers.

P99 didn't have that.

[starkind]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm going through this retarded EQEmu installer process again just to validate if channeling is client side or not. It's 2021 maybe we should just have an EQEmu docker container so no one has to install this again. One docker command and your server is up on the Loginserver.

I have a feeling I'm going to find out that channeling is NOT on the client side and that has been a red herring the entire time made up by a random no life Enchanter who shall remain nameless.

Also thanks for this. It's possible to get it fixed still maybe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why not just ctrl F emu source for channeling code tho? No need to install and execute except to test.

[azxten]

Originally Posted by starkind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also thanks for this. It's possible to get it fixed still maybe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why not just ctrl F emu source for channeling code tho? No need to install and execute except to test.

I already did that but a scared Enchanter claimed it's because the client code somehow has an issue with modified server side channeling code which is somewhat plausible. In the absence of any staff feedback I figure I'll go verify if that is true or not.

It will also make for a better timeline of how broken bug reports and contributions are...

1. Create bug report to research issue.
2. Gather evidence and prove something isn't classic.
3. Propose code change per contribution guidelines and get ignored by developers.
4. Argue with other people on forums who are scared about getting nerfed.
5. Stand up server to validate potentially misleading claims from scared players due to still being ignored by developers.
<-- You are here.
6. Prove you were misled by randos on forum and have now wasted hours, day, weeks, eons of your time and are still being ignored by developers.
7. Create new bug report about the bug report process.
8. Get channeling nerfed.
9. Laugh as people can't level past 20 anymore because the game gets too difficult and the entire "raid scene" collapses simply due to a lack of high level players until people catch up in Velious.