Paradigm Shit

[Mead]

19 pages and I just realized it said paradigm shit

[phatogre]

i have done well with PS loot council, and the leadership is great, but that does not meant it isn't fundamentally flawed system. Just like a dictatorship can be benevolent and prosperous, but at high risk of corruption/damage/mutiny, the loot council system puts a huge human element into the loot distribution, wehereas DKP keeps a players fate in their own hands. i would not want to go to my job every week if my boss decided if I got goods that week or not, i would rather earn money and spend it as I see fit. whether or not the PS loot council is corrupt is really beside the point, what it does by default is add a lot of "feeling" and emotionalism into a process which should really be mechanical.

The other problem is that it creates a sort of "we are not worthy" culture from members around the leadership (probably not intended) because you really want to stroke the ego/not offend the people who decide what loot you get when you may spend 20-30 hours raiding per week. i would prefer officers were involved in leadership only, and let DKP decide loot. For exsample, we did PoG yesterday and got terrible lootz from Tunare and spent 8+ hours there, and if you did not get a drop pretty much all that time was wasted unless you worked on Officer Faction during the raid (be as talky as possible/be a useful class). it really just isn't pleasant for a end game raiding guild, even with the flaws dkp systems has.

[jilena]

Originally Posted by phatogre [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The other problem is that it creates a sort of "we are not worthy" culture from members around the leadership (probably not intended) because you really want to stroke the ego/not offend the people who decide what loot you get when you may spend 20-30 hours raiding per week. i would prefer officers were involved in leadership only, and let DKP decide loot. For exsample, we did PoG yesterday and got terrible lootz from Tunare and spent 8+ hours there, and if you did not get a drop pretty much all that time was wasted unless you worked on Officer Faction during the raid (be as talky as possible/be a useful class). it really just isn't pleasant for a end game raiding guild, even with the flaws dkp systems has.

What the fuck are you talking about? This is hands down the best part of PS. Kicking back, watching all the greedy fucks nutriding the shit out of the officer pool... Then seeing them all butthurt and posting on RNF with some throwaway account when it doesn't work out for them. This is what makes PS a magical place. You can earn dragon bucks to soullessly accumulate loot just about anywhere on P99. Why would you want to kill the human element of PS and the joy to be had in all the tears it brings?! Take your cold lifeless fairness and shove it up your ass! Bring me the tears of lootwhores!

[phatogre]

Originally Posted by jilena [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What the fuck are you talking about? This is hands down the best part of PS. Kicking back, watching all the greedy fucks nutriding the shit out of the officer pool... Then seeing them all butthurt and posting on RNF with some throwaway account when it doesn't work out for them. This is what makes PS a magical place. You can earn dragon bucks to soullessly accumulate loot just about anywhere on P99. Why would you want to kill the human element of PS and the joy to be had in all the tears it brings?! Take your cold lifeless fairness and shove it up your ass! Bring me the tears of lootwhores!

actually u r right, keep it the same

[Detoxx]

Originally Posted by Argh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rampage also kept track of DKP, which made most of the decisions easier (and quantifiable) and much more transparent, as members could see the same information the officers were using to make the decisions.

I think the main reason loot council worked well in Rampage was simply because of the sheer amount of loot rampage got.

Was the same system TMO used. I was in TMO during the 2.5 years uncontested. There was very very few issues with LC when you kill everything. Its when you start losing that it becomes an issue or when you barely kill anything at all.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by phatogre [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For exsample, we did PoG yesterday and got terrible lootz from Tunare and spent 8+ hours there, and if you did not get a drop pretty much all that time was wasted unless you worked on Officer Faction during the raid (be as talky as possible/be a useful class). it really just isn't pleasant for a end game raiding guild, even with the flaws dkp systems has.

If you played the game for 8 hours and feel like the time was wasted because you didn't get any loot, then you truly are wasting time.

They say "time spent doing something you enjoy isn't time wasted"

...You should rethink your choices...

[Skuc]

Here's the visual I keep getting from these trolls with the lame insults. It's like someone challenged them to a breakdance fight, and:

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

By all means don't stop, but you do know you look like a fool, right?

[Baylan295]

Originally Posted by phatogre [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i have done well with PS loot council, and the leadership is great, but that does not meant it isn't fundamentally flawed system. Just like a dictatorship can be benevolent and prosperous, but at high risk of corruption/damage/mutiny, the loot council system puts a huge human element into the loot distribution, wehereas DKP keeps a players fate in their own hands. i would not want to go to my job every week if my boss decided if I got goods that week or not, i would rather earn money and spend it as I see fit. whether or not the PS loot council is corrupt is really beside the point, what it does by default is add a lot of "feeling" and emotionalism into a process which should really be mechanical.

The other problem is that it creates a sort of "we are not worthy" culture from members around the leadership (probably not intended) because you really want to stroke the ego/not offend the people who decide what loot you get when you may spend 20-30 hours raiding per week. i would prefer officers were involved in leadership only, and let DKP decide loot. For exsample, we did PoG yesterday and got terrible lootz from Tunare and spent 8+ hours there, and if you did not get a drop pretty much all that time was wasted unless you worked on Officer Faction during the raid (be as talky as possible/be a useful class). it really just isn't pleasant for a end game raiding guild, even with the flaws dkp systems has.

If you go to PoG you know that there are only going to be like 4-5 drops max in 8 hours. 1-2 off Prince, 1-3 off Tunare. Everything else drops Thurg quality Velious armor. I think I’ve seem that 40 hp/40 mana belt drop once in two trips (and I was there for most of both clears...). You go to PoG because it’s cool and there are a couple of AMAZING drops, not because you want to maximize loot/time. That happened the day before when we got something like 35 pieces for 50ish people in 8-9 hours during the earthquake.

I know not everyone walked away with something on Sunday, but man there was a lot of loot.

[Just facts]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you played the game for 8 hours and feel like the time was wasted because you didn't get any loot, then you truly are wasting time.

They say "time spent doing something you enjoy isn't time wasted"

...You should rethink your choices...

/what he said

[phatogre]

Originally Posted by Baylan295 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you go to PoG you know that there are only going to be like 4-5 drops max in 8 hours. 1-2 off Prince, 1-3 off Tunare. Everything else drops Thurg quality Velious armor. I think I’ve seem that 40 hp/40 mana belt drop once in two trips (and I was there for most of both clears...). You go to PoG because it’s cool and there are a couple of AMAZING drops, not because you want to maximize loot/time. That happened the day before when we got something like 35 pieces for 50ish people in 8-9 hours during the earthquake.

I know not everyone walked away with something on Sunday, but man there was a lot of loot.

you are misunderstanding me, i am not saying PoG should be a loot fest, what i am saying is that AG had exaxtly the same experience as PS EXCEPT they also earned DKP during the raid which could go to somethign else. as in, you can have the same cool raids with amazing drops but on a different system.

@Ella`Ella/Just Facts: i meant the time was wasted versus doing it with any other raiding guild, as in my return on investment of time is ambiguous rather than transparent. let's not pretend that everything you do on raids is a super great rewarding fun time (wipes, stress, mistakes, loot drama, etc). the game is still very enjoyable and so is raiding PoG with PS but from the perspective of loot council vs DKP it is a frustrating example is all.