Y'all have a weird idea of what classic actually was.

[hobart]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In this case it benefits us as a community to accept a definition of "classic EQ" because it serves the benefit of communication. I'd rather talk about classic--which insofar as P1999 is concerned very much includes content through but not beyond Velious--than argue over definitions. Words need accepted meanings.

I get you. I don't really disagree. But classic as is tossed around here sometimes implies something beyond "insofar as P1999 is concerned".

"Not Classic" works as a response to any Luclin talk when it means "outside of the scope the project owners have defined". But it often just means "I don't like the Nexus or VahShir".

[Danth]

That's true, Hobart. I might not like some of those later-era things, either, but I can articulate why beyond a two word grunt.

[Shawk]

Ya'll, who is saying this? Did someone specifically say that Higher Numbers == Good Game?

I don't think anyone would disagree in this sense. The Numbers got higher but EQ Classic, Kunark and Velious were the superior products. Planes of Power although a marvel at the time, ruined a few aspects of my enjoyment of the game. There were first principle game design decisions that were changed around the Planes of Power release.. They weren't exactly at that moment but the list includes things like:

Instancing - This is immersion destruction.. Obviously people disagree but I was 13 years old back then and I knew this would kill it.

Teleportation - Teleportation became easier. Less reliance on Community/Wizards.

Graphics "Upgrade" - The new Interface, new 3d Models, were not good. They were uncanny, just as Everquest 2 was in that graphical sense.. I have a clear distinction between GAME and IRL, I don't want games looking real, I want them looking like games. And I prefer the pixelated look, especially in higher resolution.. The Textures were the only thing that needed messing with like they did in Velious.

Bazaar - Complete destruction of Auction Channel and that Community building aspect of the game. I was on Solusek Ro and Gfay became a dead zone after this change. It did create a "new" experience though.

Which is why I don't disagree or agree I just have a preference that I have had my whole like and I prefer simpler immersive RPGs, with zones that are live and not "instanced" with spell effects that actually look fluid.. and I guess you can sum my entire opinion up as "just nostalgia" if you want to generalize it.

In the end I am niche.. I argued these design decisions were TERRIBLE back then, so did a lot of the devs as we found out later on.

Same thing happened to World of Warcraft. If anyone of you remembers back then, do you remember when the PVP zones were not Instanced? For example Alterac Valley was some sort of disagreement between devs as it was originally suppose to be some replication of the Warcraft game, Originally it wasn't an Instance for one which made it far more immersive and it was just be going on until someone won.

Originally Alterac Valley you just zone into and even as a casual player you could contribute to the War efforts by just gathering skins and stuff to create bigger armies and equip them better..

Instancing in general to me is literally death of immersion. Most people today consider instancing and zones to be the same thing.. Alas this is where the genre went and why you see things like BDO doing well.

[starkind]

Time gating and requiring raiding for even the mediocre tradeskills in bla was terrible.

Having to farm raids on cookdown to make rings worse than what I was getting from mythic instances was a huge let down.

[Shawk]

That said.. Even the numbers there add up.. After PoP there was a stagnant increase because all though the game was still going it wasn't going in the same direction and because of the things I mentioned the hardcore fans widdled away.

While the first three expansions kept a steady incline.

It became a game for completion types. Titles, "feats".. Which is where it should have gone honestly.. I don't see any issues with the development I just find an issue with how they didn't create some sort of "classic" servers while developing the game. Obviously Heinseight is 20/20 but really I think there should have been era separation of some sort but they thought these were evolutionary new features when in reality the more you develop over the first principle ideas the more you move away from them.

You can see the same thing with Dark age of Camelot. Shrouded Isles was an extremely good expansion, on par with Kunark... Trials of Atlantis was the same mistake that Planes of Power made.

And Both Brad (RIP) and Mark Jacobs both said that corporate decisions decided these mistakes as the players wanted it as "Community Market Managers" became the norm and to this day those jobs are what are killing the core first principles of what made MMORPGS originally great.

[gredoo]

MMO's always suffer the problem of once people max level and get all the gear they want content becomes both too easy and boring. For everquest they made more content that was harder. In WoW they made all the content from the last expansion pointless (and also so you could always pick up and play with friends in a new expansion without needing all the prior gear) in other games they just have PvP. (but what's the point of pvp if you're not contesting anything valuable?)