Want to Start a Rogue and Just want to Make Sure I Understand a Couple Things

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You won't really notice the STR either, unless you are starting off with no twink funds. OP has 20k, so they have plenty of money to get enough STR to carry everything. I have a decently twinked Gnome Warrior, total item value in the 20k range, and I have like 140 STR without really trying.

If we were talking about a Rogue who is 100% self found with no starting money/items, then you would have a STRONGER argument hehe.

Min/Max is about looking at your character at level 60, because stats don't give you much in the lower levels. If OP plays his Rogue up to level 30 and gets bored, starting stats wouldn't have mattered anyway. Not saying OP is overly concerned with Min/Max by the sound of it, but if you are worried about stats, you are thinking about the long game.

You will notice str more than sta. You will get more max hits, and you will be able to carry more. Str is probably the most noticeable of starting stats. Gnome war can acquire str easier, with dwarven cultural. They also get the tinkering str buff of 30. Not a fair comparison, imo.

OP doesn't seem like he'll ever min max, so str makes more sense. You get the early benefit, and if you do decide to min/max, sta can be capped too, so it's really not a big deal.

I've twinked many chars, done many builds. Hitting max str is not easy without buffs.

[Toxigen]

well guys see you in 100 pages

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You will notice str more than sta. You will get more max hits, and you will be able to carry more. Str is probably the most noticeable of starting stats. Gnome war can acquire str easier, with dwarven cultural. They also get the tinkering str buff of 30. Not a fair comparison, imo.

OP doesn't seem like he'll ever min max, so str makes more sense. You get the early benefit, and if you do decide to min/max, sta can be capped too, so it's really not a big deal.

I've twinked many chars, done many builds. Hitting max str is not easy without buffs.

My Monk at 51 with Epic and good EC gear has 140 Strength. His DPS is fine. You don't need capped STR in the earlier levels to do respectable DPS, especially with the weapon ratios in Velious. The point is simply that STA is harder to cap via equipment and buffs, while STR is easy to cap in EC gear with buffs. My Gnome Warrior wasn't using any of the spell buffs to hit 140 STR. As I showed in this post: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...6&postcount=18 , it's not difficult to find STR pieces that are reasonably priced in EC.

I do agree with you that STR is more important if OP was planning on doing a no twink playthrough. Then I would probably say STR is the better starting stat to put points into.

I've leveled quite a few characters myself, and the reality is mobs level 1-39 are just vastly easier than mobs 40+, especially with twink weapons. By the time you really start needing that STR, you will be high enough level to either get bored and stop playing, or have the cash to make up for any lack of STR you have.

Rogue is group dependent character, so your chances of getting buffed is also higher.

[Baldwooky]

Honestly, if part of your arguement is for STR is based on carrying FS weapons to sell, then you shouldn't be part of this conversation. If your actually even looting FS to sell in the first place then you don't understand effeciency in this game what so ever.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Baldwooky [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Honestly, if part of your arguement is for STR is based on carrying FS weapons to sell, then you shouldn't be part of this conversation. If your actually even looting FS to sell in the first place then you don't understand effeciency in this game what so ever.

You should loot FS weapons to sell. Not sure what you are talking about here. Making 200pp+ per hour while your XPing and not specifically farming will add up over time. If you spend 100 hours leveling and selling FS weapons, you will have 20K in the bank. That's a good chunk of cash, even for a well-off player.

There are camps where selling FS weapons is fast and easy, such as East Freeport Guards and Kelethin Guards. If you are evil, you can sell in the underground area in East Freeport, which only takes a few minutes and you don't even need to zone. If you are killing Kelethin Guards as a Monk, you can simply sell every time you go back up the elevator, as there are merchants right next to it. You just need to sneak.

Not everybody is power leveling to 60 as fast as possible, if that is what you are referring to. You are correct that getting to 60 faster means you can farm better items that sell for good money sooner, but that doesn't mean everybody is going to follow that specific strategy. From my experience most players do not play in this manner.

[Snaggles]

With Focus…
This is 9 str from capping. You could swap out Coldain’s for Crystal Chitin Gaunts.
With a fungi instead it’s 29 from capping
Without the str of the elements it’s 44
Using BD bracers during HoT raids and such you need 58 to cap

I’d rather cap than ask for Maniacal Strength. Nobody asks a rogues about their hps, everyone wonders wtf is wrong when they look at the parse.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:GnomeRogueTest

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With Focus…
This is 9 str from capping. You could swap out Coldain’s for Crystal Chitin Gaunts.
With a fungi instead it’s 29 from capping
Without the str of the elements it’s 44
Using BD bracers during HoT raids and such you need 58 to cap

I’d rather cap than ask for Maniacal Strength. Nobody asks a rogues about their hps, everyone wonders wtf is wrong when they look at the parse.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:GnomeRogueTest

The Magelo you provided would cap at 255 (259 total) with Focus. Your Rogue is at 192 STR and Focus gives +67. As you say, you can just swap your gloves out for STR gloves if you are wearing a Fungi.

If you need a bit of extra strength due to not having Strength of the Elements, you can simply swap one of your rings for https://wiki.project1999.com/Gem_Encrusted_Ring . Rogues get an extra 100 HP from the 25 points into STA, so you can take off one ring and still have more HP than someone who dumped their starting stats into STR with 2x HP rings. Or get https://wiki.project1999.com/Coldain..._Insignia_Ring and have your cake and eat it too.

I don't see a problem with asking for Maniacal Strength if you need it. I've had plenty of people ask for it.

Your parse will also be bad if you die.

[Snaggles]

I always think of math on riotous health. Good call on Focus.

I don’t see coming to an agreement (that’s fine). I’m always a fan of assuming players will be more casual. BD bracers instead of Beno’s. My main is hundreds of hps down and I seldom die or have a reason to stack hps so generally stack STR and MR. If I didn’t raid I would care even less.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I always think of math on riotous health. Good call on Focus.

I don’t see coming to an agreement (that’s fine). I’m always a fan of assuming players will be more casual. BD bracers instead of Beno’s. My main is hundreds of hps down and I seldom die or have a reason to stack hps so generally stack STR and MR. If I didn’t raid I would care even less.

Yeah as a casual player starting stats aren't going to matter too much either way. As long as OP gets some good weapons and a haste item, a bit of HP or STR isn't going to be noticeable most of the time.

[enjchanter]

I would recommend not making a rogue because it's a useless class that isn't useful at 60